Deryk Barker wrote:

>Sure, there were composers influenced by Brahms - Dvorak is an obvious
>example, at least in his 6th Symphony - but these were, I'd argue, minor
>issues; how exactly did he influence Schoenberg in your opinion?

Dvorak? I'd rather say the 7th, but I can agree on the 6th.

Schoenberg? That's a bit tougher. Let's see.

1.  Remember Schoenberg's orchestration of Brahms' g minor piano quartet.
Of course, it's not Brahms' "5th symphony", as someone (who, by the way?)
once said.  But it shows the interest he had for this composer.

2.  One of the longest texts ever written by Schoenberg on music is a 1947
essay, "Brahms, the progressist".

The title was certainly meant as doubly provoking:  Brahms is generally not
considered as a "progressist" and Schoenberg was very well aware that most
of the people related him rather to Wagner, Strauss or Mahler than to
Brahms.

Very approx.  translated from French, Schoenberg writes:  "Progress in
music is above all the improvement of how ideas are presented (...).
Brahms, the classic, the academic, was actually a great discoverer in
the kingdom of musical language, a great progressist".

Then Schoenberg gives numerous examples:  modern harmonies, themes with
an odd number of bars, entire movements built on small patterns of two
or three notes, etc.

There are also plenty of fascinating considerations on what could have
been a brahmsian opera...

Simon Corley
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