>Well, this is all very old news.

The discussion might be boring to some but is a discussion which should have
taken place before now between those involved at the time.

> It was quite clear from the results that Nosema ceranae was widespread and
> not confined to CCD hives, whereas IAPV appeared only in CCD hives.

You make things to simple. Nosema ceranae nearly wiped out hives in Spain
and is hard to control in many areas of the U.S. (as you posted about your
So Cal friend). Kashmir bee virus has been implicated in several bee
die offs.

IAPV was new and recently named and in Israel researchers claimed a killer
virus but Israel has a very small population of bees and most researchers
felt IAPV was only a version of KBV.

The science article made some giant leaps concerning IAPV and CCD. Was
really a poorly written article and should never have been published without
serious peer review.

The subject under discussion between myself, David Adams, Hackenberg (by
phone) Dick M & Medhat was about what went on in Florida when the USDA
looked at and took samples of only Hack's bees (Dick now should know I was
correct in my saying  only Hack's bees were sampled)

I was hoping you could provide the Penn State results of HACK'S bees not the
results of everything found in every sample taken of both CCD and healthy

> According to the scientific method, this does not indicate a causal
> relationship, but a correlation. Pettis and all soon were making it clear
> to anyone who listened that there may not be a specific cause, that some
> or all of these pathogens may be present, that a specific cause and effect
> relationship has not been identified as of yet.

Yawn back then and Yawn now.

Commercial beeks saw two problems IN HACK's bees which were new to us (even
if Pettis did not).
We saw Kashmir bee virus and nosema ceranae in 100% of Hack's samples.
Working on the hypothesis that they were at the root of the problem die off
issues have started to stop for those beeks working on the hypothesis.

After all we have never had to deal with both before (let alone in the same

>But going back to Bailey, he stated that one would expect to find any and
>all pathogens in a colony of bees.

Hello! KBV was not in the samples we had taken in Florida before Hack's bees
and we were told by the USDA that nosema ceranae was not in the U.S..
SO your statement:
"one could expect to find and and all pathogens in a colony of bees " to not
apply to the Hack finding in Florida

The USDA found two new to the U.S. problems with the first CCD testing

I could not believe that the CCD working group played down finding KBV &
nosema ceranae in 100% of the samples for which CCD was named.

While they continued to go to California to take samples (which I believe
some are still in Jerry B. freezer) I went to doing research on these NEW TO
U S BEEKEEPING problems.


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