CHRS: IBMPC 2 CODEPAGE: 437 MSGID: 240:244/116 52d19420 REPLY: 240:44/0 767cfed9 PID: FDAPX/w 1.12a UnReg(526) Hello Wolfgang, I had two carnica queens mate in October 97 only because I had left another queenless colony with plenty of drones but they were too poorly mated and reverted to drone layers themselves. That was as an experiment since I wanted carnica drones early in Spring. From what you write it is as you say apparent that the colony is queenless, even though you breed your queens late in the summer in Germany it is unrealistic to expect drones to be available or even flying so late into Autumn. I do not know of a method that will discover whether you have a queen present, whether fertile or infertile, if you have a virgin queen present then uniting the colony with a queenright colony will lose you the laying queen. A virgin queen will always kill a laying queen. If your bees are in a beehouse then you might be able to thoroughly inspect them to find the queen, kill her and then unite them, you can always make up a nucleus next Spring. Queenless bees are recogniseable by experience in the way they move and the noise they make. Wo hast du so gut Englisch gelernt, es gibt kein Fehler bei ihre Beschreibung. Gruesse aus der Garten von England Peter Hutton --- * Origin: Kent Beekeeper Beenet Point (240:244/116)