Robin Wells <[log in to unmask]> wrote >> I used to use the frame grip to get the first, outermost frame out. That >> was when I had 10 frames/brood chamber. Now that I've switched to 9 I >> sometimes don't even need a hive tool to remove brood frames. Or, at least >> the first frame comes out much more readily. FWIW >Speaking of which, what are the advantages or disadvantages of 9 frames in >the brood chambers? and Doug Henry <[log in to unmask]> wrote >I use 9 frames for both brood and honey. This seems to work well. I found >that using 10 frames made it too difficult to work the bees without >rolling them up. However I am a rank novice, some of the experts comments >should be interesting. First: frame grips. My first sight of these was as community beekeeper on Gt Barrier Is (near Auckland, NZ), a blessed haven with no AFB (although some idiot down-island did bring infected bees over once - fortunately it was stamped out quickly). A visiting beekeeper had the grips with him so I tried them out (yes, being aware of disease possibilities!). Brilliant!! They enabled me to use one hand for manipulating the frame, made lifting each frame out easier (and gave better leverage: this didn't break frames worth keeping), meant I didn't get fingers in the top of the comb while manipulating frames one-handed, etc. While at university I only have two hives, to keep my hand in, but I'd buy a grip whenever I have more hives. Let's face it: it's a personal choice. Perhaps if I was brave enough not to wear gloves, frame grips would be less useful. The community's bees needed to be fairly aggressive so I never went gloveless (gentler strains just died out - believe me, I introduced a few new mated queens but ended up having to raise my own). Nine frames: in 12 years, none of my queens have ever laid in the outside two frames. By only having 9 frames in the brood chamber, she only gets 7 to lay in. I'd favour putting in 11 but each frame needs to be narrower, which makes them less compatible with self-spacing 10-frame honey supers. Besides, 9 frames must be manually spaced. If brood boxes need shifting, 9 frames tend to rattle around, potentially killing the queen. If frames are not forced in between others, "rolling" of bees shouldn't be a problem (ie put the outermost frame back last after the others have been pushed together). If bees are in the way, smoke 'em down. Again, this is personal opinion and no doubt others swear by 9-frame brood chambers... For my supers, I began using Manley frames (the frames that hold 10 sections). I simply drill appropriate holes for 4 wires, shave half a beespace off either side of the topbar to allow vertical bee travel, and treat them like a normal frame. Seven leave a space for one Hoffman frame, or extra work space. With new foundation, it is wise to interleave them with capped frames (Hoffman or Manley) until the comb is built, as burr comb bridges or uneven faces may be a problem. Only put them on during a strong honey flow so the bees build them out quickly. I've done this for years, and you get a *lot* of honey for each sheet of foundation!! Heavy foundation is best (I'm going to make a foundation mould one of thse days so I can have really thick foundation using reclaimed wax). This is a useful method for extraction systems other than centrifuge, also. I've not been scientific about it, but it seems (from memory) that queens have not laid in them - cells too deep? Palmerston North, New Zealand. (Opinions given not necessarily those of Massey University)