In message <[log in to unmask]> [log in to unmask] writes: > Gordon L. Scott, wrote, > > W. Allen Dick wrote: > > Jean-Pierre > Chapleau wrote: > > > > > <deleted> > > > > > One of the best beekeepers I know who really makes his living from honey > production answered my question about selection for tolerance/resistance by > saying: "I don't want to be the guinea pig." > This really opened my eyes to the whole agricultural/chemical dilemma. > This guy depends on his bees to keep him alive. Yes, he probably could have > avoided foul, and not had to use blanket TM treatments, but he was making > money then, when his bees broke down with AFB, and he didn't have the time, > or care to eradicate the AFB reservoirs. > Thus as in most other types of Western agriculture, the manager plays with > chemical management models, originally implemented for ease and profit, now for > survival. That seems to demonstrate the problem well. Here in the UK, TM treatment of bees by beekeepers is forbidden by law (not that that stops some doing it) for two main purposes. An attempt to minimise TM resisance and to avoid obscuring the presense of AFB. AFB is automaticaly and mandatorialy destroyed by fire and all equipment is scorched to sterilise it. EFB ditto if it fails to respond prompty to treatment. Fortunately, members of the British BKA and bee farmers can get good economic insurance that largely covers the financial costs. I can't of course deal with the upset of having our bees killed. Our EFB and AFB rates are pretty low here in spite of little or no treatment respectively -- I don't have figures to hand but could get them. I don't _think_ that the low figures are because people hide infections although that must sometimes happen. We do have government inspectors to 'police' the system. In Australia, I know that many farmers simply requeen whenever they see EFB (I don't know what they do for AFB), much as we might for chalkbrood/sacbrood. Most don't use antibiotics. But then in 'oz' they have warm weather pretty well all year round so they can perhaps handle these things differently. I don't think they see _very_ much of either EFB or AFB. What happens in blanket treatment areas if the treatment stops, or worse stops working? <rhetorical>. Sadly, in some areas of the world, I think agriculture may be already trapped or nearly trapped into long-term chemical use. I have athlete's foot (a fungal infection). I've had it for 30 years and I spend about one UKP every two weeks on treatment that suppresses it, but never actually cures it. I estimate that at nearly UKP 1000 worth of chemicals. Ho hum... -- Gordon Scott [log in to unmask] Compuserve 100332,3310 Basingstoke Beekeeper [log in to unmask] Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits!