Dr. Roger Morse of Cornell University showed me a nifty little trick some 20 years ago for nailing the wedge into wedge top frames when installing foundation. Rather than using a hammer and missing the nail and marring the foundation use a pair of standard pliers slipped open to the widest jaw opening. Set wide, the pliers can be easily held in one hand and will quickly and efficiently squeeze nails into the wedge and secure the foundation snugly in the frame. At the wide setting the pliers are wide enough to encompass the whole width of the top bar, so the heavy part of the top bar is used to pull against. Try this method, it is quick and simple. I too have used wedge top bars as well as grooved top bars and grooved bottom bars with Duragilt (plastic based foundation). The grooved bars and Duragilt are a good combination in that the Duragilt snaps in the frames quickly and makes a good strong unit. I've never blown one out extracting deeps, even when freshly drawn out. However, I don't like the mess left behind when friend wax moth gets to them, and on certain rare occasions the bees don't seem to want to draw them out. There is also something to be said for having more cross bar to nail in a groove top frame, you can shoot a T staple into a groove top bar side where you cannot in a wedge top bar. I guess in the final analysis, I would take the grooved top bar for strength. -- William G Lord E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: [log in to unmask] Phone :