Everyone thinks of the hive as a conglomerate but this group is made up of individuals who sometimes indicate what the problem is. Have you done a ramp test? Where are you located? repeated for your convenience ----- Me too -- is it really ccd? If there are still hives left, your choice is a sick, but not yet weak hive close to a (empty)dead out/collapse. Before inspection set up a ramp, as per hiving a swarm, a bit big. At end of inspection shake 2-3 frames onto ramp. Try to minimize nectar spray Close hive You are interested in the last 10-20% on the ramp, the laggards These bees will show symptoms or not or different If you see all 3 commonest(also unconfirmed), (STR, ankle rub, feet too close) [spend 10 minutes looking(or more)] get out the formic pads for all hives How sure do want to be and for what reason If you're really sure it was ccd, I recommend a 2nd formic treatment. (ie 6-8 weeks) I do wish there was something else, I quite dislike formic Fortunately the bees don't share my opinion ----- (physical symptoms still unconfirmed) Anything to get the mite to as close to zero as you can do (less vectors ie the pupae) If there's no surplus then you can treat anything anytime ie OA(v) weekly or OA(d) 2x/month or tetra 2x/month or? Watch for what works, then you know more about the cause I continue to believe that Vitamin C is (temporarily) effective in treating ccd (LARGE doses 100-500ppm) (not syrup, weight of bee-patients) Top bar drench or for those in a bad way misted onto their backs w/ plant mister (.5-1.0gm C in 50ml of 50:50 ALL frames w/ bees) If they respond well you can be sure that X is viral, then 1 gm C 2x/week will keep them better than alive I wonder if this would work for the non viable eggs? See my post Nov14/08 It is suspicious than none did well What about >Very little honey and pollen is present 5# / hive? more? Also not typical so low quantity >had to feed them all copiously just to keep them alive if they didn't make their own honey I could imagine 50#/hive (since they will never be overstrong) but if >There has been very little incoming nectar then it may be a bad place for bees despite previous success. How many is "several years"? I use a bit stronger bleach than Bob, 25% I think it cuts the contamination time in half Rather like SO2 and a lot easier The Moth still avoid the most contaminated areas, a bit peverse their presence be a cause for approval It didn't save their lives though dave *********************************************** The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html