>>...are all tied to surviving in temperate woodland conditions. >How is lowered defensiveness tied to survival? My reasoning is simple. African bees are hyper when it comes to nest defense. In Africa, there are many more predators than in Europe and being hyperdefensive may be a requirement for survival there. However, when African bees kill a horse or a pet in the US it does absolutely nothing to boost their survival. On the contrary, it's an overreaction that needlessly destroys valuable resources (ie. worker bees by the thousands). While in Africa, worker numbers can be rebuild on good forage in season, this sort of blind defensiveness in Europe would deprive colonies of much needed workers in Europe's forests where significant forage availability is limited to spring. A colony facing a cold winter in the temperate European region, couldn't afford losing a significant portion of their workers if it wanted to survive the cold till spring. This African trait did not cut it in the old, cold European forests. >>I am not saying that they are not less defensive, nor am I saying that when moving to the forests of europe that they did not become less defensive... I believe the European environment was tough on the overdefensive colonies from Africa and selected for colonies with a more targeted defense. >>...the gentility we see may be the result of our tinkering through the millenia. Until the skeps, Europeans 'managed' colonies in scattered bee trees that they located in forests. The harvesting of honey was often rather unmanaged and brutal, often resulting in the kill of colonies. The dead colonies were naturally replaced by swarms the next season. In my opinion, bees' defense evolved more in the face of animal predators - rather than humans - that could be discouraged by a high level of defense. If man could be discouraged, his unsuccessful attempts at robbbing would have selected for a more defensive stock. But man was the most persistant predator who also found smoke and other aids to help his robbing. A colony robbed out by man in Europe in the 2nd half of season, stood very little chance of rebuilding and preping for winter. It's genetics would have been lost in the winter. Waldemar PS. The above are my personal opinions or speculation. :) I have no actual proof that this was how honey bees evolved in Europe. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ******************************************************