> For some, and apparently for the E.U. organic > beekeepers, it is about the process as much as the product. > The fact that all those countries, much less all those beekeepers could > >come together in agreement of what will be considered organically > >produced honey is amazing to me as an American rugged >individualist. A > lot of comprimising must have been done. Steve is quite right about compromising. But it is good to know for everyone that the rules were not made only by beekeepers. Also consumers and government officials and representatives from other organic production were at the work. Wing clipping has go a lot of attention. I can easily understand why it is in the rules. Like Steve said many feel it as cruel and unnecessary mutilation. Not even all beekeepers are willing to do it for this reason expecially in the hobby sector. Trevor told about getting normal queens to organic beehives in Australia. EU rules say organic queens must be prferred, but allow 10 % of queens/ year to come from normal production. If more then the hives receiving queens are not organic anymore for one season. Clear comnpromise. The aim for limiting the animal material is like in the other organic farming. Organic chickens must in EU be born from organic eggs, also the same for pigs etc. Even when growing carrots or grass the tiny seeds must come from organic production ( can be normal if organic seeds do not exist on the market) . The idea is to have reliability in the eyes of the consumers. The whole production chain must be organic to be trusted by consumers.. I myself am not a true beliver in organic so that I would only use organic products, but prefer food without residues. And also food produced by minimum environmental effects. In shop organic lable is the only way to find easily food like this unless you know more about the producer. Also in Finland it is very dfficult for many beekeepers to understand the organic rules because they are not logical when loking only from residues. I advice them to think the rules as a moral code a bit like religion. I think it is very good from the marketing point that organic rules also include things about animal welfare and sustainability. In Finland about 2,5 % of beekeeping is organic, but the number is coming up. Ari Seppälä Finland ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ******************************************************