Eric Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >Joe, you said you don't select for the ability to survive bad varroa >levels, but you're not intervening to "save" hives either, are you? Hi Eric, I don’t intervene at all to save a colony, they are combined, requeened quickly when I see a colony that performs poorly. > If you're letting hives die from varroa mites, I would say >you're selecting for some combination of abilities to keep mite levels low >and/or survive with higher numbers of mites. Numbers of colonies dying from varroa have steadily declined for me over the past 5 years. I haven’t had a colony die of varroa for about two years now. Could just be a good year, but this season I don’t detect any mite pressure what so ever, and only occasionally see a mite or two. All my colonies are caught from the feral population and are on natural cell sizing. The problem is with catching ferals is that they need to be assessed before you can integrate them. Also, the performance can vary widely, and it can be difficult to tell the bad from the good until much time has been invested in assessing them and waiting to see how they perform. I have a system of assessing ferals that enables me to rapidly assess the colonies in order to limit the time invested in assessing each colony allowing me to free up needed equipment. I place ferals I trap OR catch in my poorest forage location, here it becomes very easy to tell the best from the worst. This first assessment phase lasts from colony initiation on thru till the end of the first active season (a total of approximately 18 weeks after the colonies are established). During this initial assessment period, I may eliminate an average of 40 to 50% of these ferals due to deficiencies in colony growth or other reasons. At the initial assessment stage, I am mostly selecting for colony growth, fecundity and over all health. You may recognize the quote “Fecundity is an essential prerequisite for any exceptional performance, and adequate fecundity must be bound up with a series of other essential characteristics of economic value“. So here I assess fecundity, and management characteristics first, and then move on to include traits of economic value. By the end of the season, it becomes obvious which colonies have traits essential for productivity and the out performers really stand out above the pac when assessing bees in such a poor forage location. From here on out, colonies are moved to an out yard and assessed here on out for overall performance. >What I'm trying to say is that I'm sure selecting for overall performance >works, especially in the absence of intervention, but I wonder if you might >not be able to make a lot more honey by making some very marginal >sacrifices with your breeding program (if you wanted to). That is a very good point, and you are right! What specific sacrifices would you be referring to? Basically, I do select for overall performance, but… being a collector of feral bees what I was faced with in my breeding is a complete rebuilding from the ground up. And because I do not treat my bees for anything, I need to balance my breeding equally with traits of survival and traits of economic value. At first when rebuilding, I had to select strictly for survival characteristics. And when I finally managed to get the bees surviving varroa and thriving on their own, I then turned to selecting traits of fecundity with a major focus on hygienic behavior, brood viability, Queen performance and productivity etc. I now have colonies that a very populous and with most colonies exhibiting brood viability above 98%, this has resulted in increased productivity across the board. I’m not sure where to go from here, but I look at where the bees are lacking to determine this. Now I am looking at focusing again toward improving traits concerning industry, spring build up, early comb building etc. Some of these traits could not have been selected earlier due to the priority at the time in establishing traits fundamental to the overall health of the colonies. Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA EcologicalBeekeeping.com ‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' Feral Bee Project: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FeralBeeProject/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info ---