Hi everyone, My approach to the organic issue, especially the marketing aspect, is very similar to Roy's. I think it would do us good to be a little more realistic, though. I don't think it's cynicism to say that consumers, especially in our suburban society, are shallow and ignorant. What do they know about beekeeping? What do they know about farming? I don't think they're in any position to judge our organic/pseudo-organic standards. I'd like to think they can trust us and learn from us, and I believe in face-to- face business models, but these aren't things that build a bottom line. I trust that your standards have integrity, Roy, but I think you could make just as much money and more if you forgot about the kind of integrity that your customers don't understand anyway and just focused on the fluff and buzzwords. Of course, I'm not defending that way of doing things, but I think those aspects are what make the bottom line. So I have a hard time believing that "quality will always win" or that what's paying off is education. Try selling "quality" and "education" without the feel-good images and decorative jars, and I think you'll find that the feel-good images and decorative jars are subsidizing your quality. The beekeepers I know who do things most organically do so because they believe in it, often without profiting from their organic standards one bit. I have yet to find any way to convey my organic standards in a way that makes me any more money than the guy that's just throwing around empty buzzwords and dressing things up. Even so, I'm plenty happy with my bottom line. It would be nice to believe in an inherent market advantage for genuine quality/organic standards, but I don't see it. Eric -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info ---