Hi Tim, Re: "I would take issue however with a couple of the adjectives used regarding Mid-west bees and their propensity to be judged as "shitty bees". " I in no way meant to impugn either midwestern bees nor beekeepers--from everything I've seen, you guys are both intelligent, and experts at what you do. And certainly don't deserve the blows you got this season. We Californians produce plenty of shitty bees ourselves due to our lack of summer pollen (we commonly go 6 months without a drop of rain). We have to combine down ourselves, and most locals that I know have gone in over the years without inspection. I'm small time, and am only guessing, but I guess that growers faced with paying $150 wanted to make sure they got their money's worth. I apologize if I sounded flippant in my posts, because I really feel for you guys, and think you got screwed big time. I completely understand about midwestern bees being bred for small winter clusters that build up later. When I've sold nucs to the midwest, I've made a point of stocking them with queens from midwestern, rather than Calif breeders. I've also seen great bees come out from east of the Rockies, and explode when they warm up here. We're all struggling, and I sure don't want to add to any animosity. I agree with you that the growers, brokers, and out-of-state beekeepers better learn to work with each other, or the growers will really be hurting for bees in a couple of years. Randy Oliver Calif -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info ---