I have a number of Quiby hives with frames that predate foundation. The top bar of the frames, with the exception of the "lugs" are shaped like an inverted pyramid on a pedestal. Sort of like this: _________ I I I I . / Guess who just discovered this . / keyboard has no back slash? . / . / . / . Generally bees attach to the lowest point on a top bar, if they have a wide flat area the mid line can wander as they join some number of "starts", each at a slightly different place or slight angle on the same top bar. Starter strips and wax beads help but can also be incorporated in nearby comb. If a frame is not perfectly level they use the lower edge. I have found that starter strips cut from unwired foundation often "break" and the comb drops. The easiest way that I have found is to nail the wedge sideways against the other half, which gives a narrow, straight edge. If you have groved top bar, a thin strip of scrap wood wider than the depth of the grouve can be inserted and either nailed or glued in place. Some of the better off among us, university types, etc.,<grin> have been known to purchase "scads" of dowels to do the same thing. I think square dowels would work better than round but I'll leave that to Aaron to decide when he reports his results. Rip -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info ---