> Don't avoid his work. Its a must read. Well said, Scot. Frankly, I haven't read Adrian's book for a few decades, and have not read all of Von Frisch, but I gather Adrian doesn't have problems with Von Frisch and his work ...up to a point. If I understand Adrian, Von Frisch had it right until he decided to describe the motions of the bees as a language and ascribed causal relationships. At that point he upped the ante , for proof, and -- in the view of some -- failed to prove his thesis. I admire Adrian for his observations and criticisms. This is how science is supposed to work, but ask Galileo: the price of questioning dogma is sometimes high. Was Von Frisch right? Is Adrian right? No matter, IMO. There is a good chance neither has the key. The world of insects is very different from the world of man. allen Now, I'm sure we'll hear from Adrian... or Ruth -- or both. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::