>> I have been noticing several DWV affected bees outside of my garden >> hives. Definitely HIGH mite levels. I cannot use Apistan, much less >> check-mite due to organic restrictions on the farm. (I would not anyway). Many of BEE-L know I have problems with the whole issue of organic honey. When a person selling "organic honey" spends the money to have his honey tested on a mass spec machine to assure zero problems I might buy in. We all know large scale testing will never happen due to cost. In a recent discussion over " organic honey" over why a hive headed with a queen which had been instrumentally inseminated could not be certified as organic I raised a few other important issues. The person had bought nucs from a beekeeper (frames included) which had used both apistan & checkmite plus terramycin. Of course the future organic beekeeper was not going to use any of those things. Hmmm. Also almost all packages & queens today come from hives in which chemicals have been used. Bees raised in cells in hives which without a doubt fluvalinate and coumaphos could be found with a mass spec machine. Hmmm. I have not fault with beekeepers saying they practice "organic principals" when managing their hives. Advertise not using chemical treatments. Giving beekeepers (and large beekeeping corporations) the right to label honey as "organic" with the type of policing in place today is absurd in my opinion. The whole system is basically on the honor system. Until the person selling under the organic label can prove through testing their honey is better than mine I remain unconvinced. Serious questions: Do you really know the level of contamination in your wax (both environmental and from past beekeeping practices)? Can you say for sure that your bees are not flying over and landing on contamination? (what's in a so many mile rule?) Many illegal dumps are around (especially in the rural country). Is the current honor system enough? (Having grown and sold produce when I see perfect produce & fruits sold at our farmer's market under the organic label I have got doubts!) I grew organic fruit for thirteen years! Is the honey being sold under the organic level really purer than other honey not under the organic level? (Private testing done by a few large beekeepers and not made public says NO!) Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::