> I regret also that this material appears to be on the public > market that apparently have with no answers at the moment to > so many basic questions Well, the (USA) EPA published the document cited below a year ago, so they have had more than enough time to correct any typos or errors, and they use phrases like "potential for toxic chronic exposure to honey bees". EPA documents published under the current administration have become classic examples of the art of understatement, so it is reasonable to say that just about anyone else would say something less charitable. http://www.epa.gov/opprd001/factsheets/clothianidin.pdf Here's a few snippets from the document: Common Name: Clothianidin Trade Name: Poncho 600 Pesticide Type: Insecticide Chemical Family: Nitroguanidine subgroup of nicotinoids U.S. Producer: Bayer Corporation "Clothianidin has the potential for toxic chronic exposure to honey bees, as well as other nontarget pollinators, through the translocation of clothianidin residues in nectar and pollen." "In order to fully evaluate the possibility of chronic exposure to honey bees, a complete worker bee life cycle study will be required, as well as an evaluation of exposure and effects to the queen." "The fate and disposition of clothianidin in the environment suggest a compound that is a systemic insecticide that is persistent and mobile, stable to hydrolysis, and has potential to leach to ground water, as well as runoff to surface waters." "Available data indicate that clothianidin on corn and canola should result in minimal acute toxic risk to birds. However, assessments show that exposure to treated seeds through ingestion may result in chronic toxic risk to non-endangered and endangered small birds (e.g., songbirds) and acute/chronic toxicity risk to non-endangered and endangered mammals." A quick search did not yield any reference to any completed study on honey bees, but I did find one done on bumblebees that claimed "no impact". Please note that the "nicotinoids" group of systemic pesticides also includes the far-too familiar Imidacloprid (Admire, Confidor, Gaucho, Merit, Premier, Premise, Provado...). "Gaucho", "Poncho"... I see a trend here. Bayer seems to be talking through their sombrero to the federales. Putting a "treatment" on seed is nothing but a cheap "value added" for the seed company, a way to coax a higher price from the farmer for the same old seed. Clearly, any farmer who practices IPM is not going to want to buy or apply a pesticide to 100% of his crop, so having it on 100% of his seed is nothing but a waste of money. If the farmer wants to treat seed for a specific planting, he can do so himself "in the seed hopper" on his planting rig. Farmers don't want "Weapons of Mass Malfunction" any more than beekeepers do, and farmers certainly don't want to pay extra money for them when he does not need them. This is a key point about IPM, and the reason why local farmers now ask us to do high-resolution 3D terrain maps of their fields - they have computerized spreaders and sprayers, and are applying fertilizers and pesticides in specific doses to individual areas as small as 3 square meters. (A decade ago, the toughest problem anyone dragged before me was a bailer that had eaten a metal fence post. Now the same farmers want raster images from satellite data vectorized, just so they can get a better crop of hay for their dairy herds. The high-tech toys pay for themselves in a season or two through lower chemical use.) The good news (for beekeepers) is that seed treatments in general are being viewed as of questionable value even in the eyes of people who never met a pesticide they didn't like: http://www.ag.uiuc.edu/cespubs/pest/articles/200324d.html http://paulding.osu.edu/AG/hottopics/seedtreatments.pdf The bad news is that these treatments are being unconditionally "bundled" into the very useful BT treated "Yield-Gard" corn, just like those useless software bundles that came with PCs in the 1990s, consisting of products you had never heard of, from companies you had never heard of, and never heard from again. jim (The result of an unorthodox career path, overused library cards, massive bandwidth, and an oblique view) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::