> I don’t believe that this double treatments will work in hives that > have brood all the year around. But it will work in many parts of > Europe and Northern America. Here is the crux of the matter. With Apistan and Checkmite+, beekeepers really have not needed to know or understand what is going on in their hives. These treatments, applied correctly and left for the requisite two brood cycles, were/are 1.) highly effective whether the hives have brood or not, and 2.) have no apparent effect on brood rearing. 3.) can be applied quite effectively almost any time that supers are not required The alternate treatments being discussed: oxalic, formic, sucrose octanoate, thymol etc... are 1.) not as lethal to mites, 2.) may not last through two brood cycles without checking, adjustment, or multiple applications 3.) may, in some cases, have adverse effects on brood 4.) have more limited as to times and circumstances where they may be practically applied Moreover, because different bee strains, and even different hives in a given yard, may have widely varying amounts of brood in fall -- or any time -- results will vary from hive to hive, and from operation to operation, and treatment to treatment. Using these alternate methods can save money and reduce risk of contamination to hives and hive products, but they do require a bit more time, a bit more management, and much more understanding. Whereas, with strips, all that was required was the (considerable sum of) money to buy them, the understanding of how to handle them safely and where and how to insert them, plus, hopefully, the attention span to remember to take them out, with these other techniques the bar is a bit higher. Oftentimes, the hives and mite levels *must* be assessed, appropriate treatment components (including sometimes application equipment or supplies) must be acquired and prepared, application must take place -- and that may involve added work over merely inserting strips -- then followup asssessments and perhaps additional applications must be made. HASMAT considerations are more complex for chemical liquids and dusts -- even essential oils -- than for prepared, labelled, and packaged strips. There are big cost savings for those who can manage all these steps and the logic involved in using acids and essential oils, but we have already seen that even a simple system like strips has exceeded the abilities of more than a few beekeepers to manage. Although we are hoping that techniques will be developed for specific regions and procedures will be clearly defined, we are facing another IQ test when we add these more complex methods to our quiver. Our best hope is that the genetic approaches will bring us to the point where our stocks are not nearly as susceptible to varroa, and chemical measures will not need to be as essential as they are today. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::