As in beekeeping topics, again we get a lot of good advice and perspective as various experienced and knowledgeable people write from all over the world, each from his/her own experience. That is good for getting an overview, but general truths are not always applicable to a specific small sample, particularly where details have not been given. In this case, we don't know the supplier in question, the buyers needs, standards, purposes or budget. As in beekeeping, we can say that all woodworking is local, and that appear to be 'worldwide universal truths' may have local exceptions, and I suggest that these truths may apply on something like a bell curve. These in the middle may find them true all the time, everywhere, and others nearer the trailing edges may find that these 'truths' apply some of the time and others... Having made a living designing and building furniture back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth, I can offer a few thoughts and experiences. Actually, I have before, some time back, on this very list. Others wrote very good essays as well, and as often the case, they will likely write brief comments now, but not bother to regurgitate the entire previous discussion, so a dive into the archives may be worthwhile for those hungry for info. One huge consideration for both fussy beekeepers and serious woodworkers is that local ambient humidity may differ a lot, and what is 'dry' on the coast, may be 'damp' inland. Therefore, machining standards may vary. Well-seasoned (antique) furniture from the East has been brought west and found to shrink and crack in the dryness of our climate, especially when that dryness exacerbated by central heating in winter. Kiln drying has improved the situation for builders of bee boxes, but a kiln is only as good as the operator, and, besides, kiln dried wood (8%? as I recall, but it has been decades) is still pretty damp where I live. Each different wood has unique characteristics, and may differ in the amout of shrinkage in drying and swelling in service. Moreover, 'pine' is not 'pine'; there are countless varieties of pine, each with differing machining, life expectancy and rot resistance properties. Softwoods, in particular, can be very difficult to work with any degree of consistency, since the density, the grain, the moisture, and warpage all vary from sample to sample, resulting in varying machinabilty and resulting dimensional drift. This can be managed, but it requires understanding of each wood, and careful attention to detail. When several woods are being milled in the same shop, at the same time, on the same batch, as happens, for example when a spruce/pine mix is purchased, some dimensional problems are bound to ocur. Corners may not quite fit tightly -- or too tightly, and the heights of sides and ends may not match perfectly. Fortunately, these problems may only be apparent to the woodworkers, since beekeeping tolerances are quite wide, most beekeepers are not too fussy, and the problems are usually quite subtle. Many North American beekeepers trim the boxes to width, using a table saw after assembly and drying in a heated room, since some manufacturers deliverately deliver them a bit too high, to allow for unpredictable shrinkage and for trimming. That brings me to this comment. > As the best way of achieving it is to > stack part machined components at various times during manufacture > for several months at a time. This attention to detail helps to keep > tolerances small and of the order of > 0.1 mm (0.004") which we used to be proud of. I'm sure Dave got the very best out of his wood, and all the accuracy that could be had by virtue of such attention to detail, and careful drying, but this mention brings to mind an experience I had some time back, buying from a well-known and respected US supplier. I ordered a pallet or two of supers to be used for Ross Rounds production. That is not a normal size that all dealers stock (When they do, for some reason, they are always stock boxes that are a half-inch too high and need ripping). When the boxes arrived, as expected, they were Ponerosa pine, commercial grade (looked more like select), lock cornered, and drilled for nailing: very nice. What amused me, though, was that it seemed that they had cut down pieces for a taller box size or maybe pieces designated for wider box that had bottom edge flaws. The shop had obviously cut the pieces down just before delivery by making one straight cut, ripping a strip off the bottom of each piece, to arrive at the proper height. However, they must have stacked the partially complete pieces for some time in a dry place -- but maybe not for months -- between the original machining and the ripping. During that time, the ends had dried much more than the middles of the pieces, and when they ripped, they made a straight cut, BUT, when we assembled them and the boxes dried out, there was 1/8" to 1/4" bow upwards in the centre of each side on the bottom due to the shrinkage of the part that had been moist when cut. What had been a straight cut was no longer straight when the moisture equalized. No problem. We had ordered them wide, and simply ripped off the excess, elimating the bowed edge. Anyhow, advice to the prospective purchaser: Examine carefully any boxes you purchase before you buy, unless you know the seller and their standards, or you don't care. Sometimes there are bargains, but in a tight market like this, I would expect there is a very good reason for any price markdown. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::