Tim is still concerned with moral judgements on various appoaches to the management of bees, and asks if there are volunteers to make the judgements. I would hope every beekeeper already makes such judgements - but only concerning his/her own actions. In a civilised society the members need to consider and be aware of the consequences of their actions. When the consequences are potentially so serious that it is too risky to leave the judgement to the individual, society introduces laws and regulations - and sets up formal channels for judgement of violations. The issues we are discussing are basically practical - and not a moral problem for society. Does sugar feeding benefit bees or not - or is it done just to increase income, by those who have that aim? Is it worth producing honey on the basis that it is likely to be good for human health, or is it only a sweetie? Each beekeeper will have their own position and hopefully some will be prepared to share it thru this list to help others to review or develop their own position. Society would come into it - and make official judgements - if for example claims were made to customers in order to justify a sale, that cannot be substantiated. So at present, on the issue of whether eating honey is good for human health, we can note the extensive historical documents that show people thru the ages have believed it did, and we can reason from this that it would not have been believed for so long unless empirical evidence gained within those earlier societies supported the belief (like honey eaters as a group seemed to have better general health or lived to greater age), and using imagination we can speculate where beneficial components in honey may come from (and so define a research aim) but we certainly cannot put on a jar that 'if u eat this u will feel better'. At present, that has to be left to the individual customer to decide. Tim seems touchy if anyone questions how others manage their bees. But it is just a matter of individual conscience - 'if the cap fits, wear it'. Nothing I say is meant to take away the right to decide for ourselves , with the limits of where risk to society sets in. I do hope some lurkers may comment on the BEEKEEPING issues that have been raised and move us on from carping about choice of language. Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::