I've never recommended it -- even to my worst enemy -- if I had one -- but you can see the (pathetic) pictures in my diary. There are also pictures of the same 2lb packages installed on drawn comb. You decide. They have all the advantages except warm weather. They have protein patties, fondant, and OTC. Maybe later -- after we conclude this experiment, I will be saying differently, but for now, I continue to say that installing packages on foundation is a good way to kill bees. allen ------ http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ "If I make a living off it, that's great--but I come from a culture where you're valued not so much by what you acquire but by what you give away," -- Larry Wall (the inventor of Perl)