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BEE-L  July 2011

BEE-L July 2011

Subject:

Re: Fall dwindle disease, AKA CCD

From:

Bob Harrison <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 9 Jul 2011 21:17:33 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (118 lines)

> Fact check:
> Hack had N ceranae in his operation since at least 1985 and did not notice
> any problems with nosema nor collapses until his problems in 2005
> (personal
> conversation).  So N ceranae was certainly not *new* to his operation.

Fact:
nosema ceranae does not respond well to fumigillin and I do not know if Hack
had been treating prophylactic but although possibly detected back in 1985
samples N.C. did not replace NAs
. overnight.
As Peter posted the USDA claimed that in 2006 N.C. was first detected. Took
two decades for the bee lab to find N.C. in the U.S..
 certainly an "egg on face issue" played down by the lab.

>
>>Nosema ceranae nearly wiped out hives in Spain
>
> Fact:  This assertion is strongly challenged by other Spanish researchers,

What is not challenged about bees?


 Many beekeepers worldwide (including myself and Hack's associates
> in Florida) keep apparently healthy, productive bees with sometimes high N
> ceranae levels without ever using fumagillin.

Interesting but not what I have observed so we will have to :
"agree to disagree"



>
>> KBV was not in the samples we had taken in Florida before Hack's bees
>
> Fact (from Virology and the Honey Bee): "molecular detection in
> apparently healthy adult bees have shown that KBV is a widespread and
> common inapparent infection in the USA (Hung et al., 1996; Hung and
> Shimanuki, 1999)"

I am not sure what year Denise Anderson came to the U.S. and found KBV for
the USDA which said KBV was not in the U.S..
I placed a call to the USDA in Beltsville in 2004 asking if KBV and N.C. 
were
in the U.S. and the reply was no.
Our samples sent to the U.K. from Florida Horace Bell bees in contact with
Hack's operation prior to CCD did not turn up any KBV virus.


> Note the dates, which greatly precede Hack's troubles.  We can safely
> assume
> that KBV was not new to Hack's operation.

If so then hack brought KBV into Florida most likely as no KBV was found in
the Florida samples sent to the U.K.. I contend that KBV was not widespread 
in Florida bees and would like to see the test results of the others 
beekeepers bees in the area of hacks CCD bees to see if N.C. & KBV were in 
100 % of those samples.

Hack and I have been friends for many years and if Hack is reading then
think back to the first time your ever met me and the person which
introduced me.to you. Maybe you will remember what he said when he
introduced me?

Hack's problems were real but *in my opinion* the hypothesis put forth by
the CCD team on what they were seeing was a bit of a leap.

>However, Australian
> bees brought to the US often crash when they pick up varroa.

I received bees from each year and found the bees from Browns bees vary
tolerant of varroa and never had problems with crashing. Still running some
lines. I can't speak for "Taylor made bees" (handled by Weaver).

 I am not
> saying that the strain of KBV in Hack's bees came from Australia, but no
> telling.

To my knowledge Hack never purchased Aussie bees prior to the collapse.
Another cheap shot at Aussie bees.

Consider this Randy:
Our beekeeping die offs correspond with the rush for the gold in almonds. 
Adee & Hack problems started after sending bees into almonds!

Fuzzy science and politics stopped the Aussie import.(however not before
some of us received genetics from Buck fast ,Italy & France. )

> Again, goes both ways, Bob!  Especially when you ignore well-documented
> facts.

I never argue with sound research but for every study showing one result
most times another study shows a different result.

Beekeeping researchers are like climate change researchers. few agree.

Is the  world getting warmer or colder?

A decade ago we were going into another ice age. Now the world is getting 
warmer.


I look to the bees for solutions.

My Daddy always said :
"experience is the best teacher"


bob

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