----- Original Message -----
From: Isis Glass <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tuesday, November 8, 2005 1:13 pm
Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Feral Honey Bees

> quote:
> "[feral] 1. Said of animals normally found in a domestic
> situation or in captivity: wild; fending for itself.
> Example: feral cats"
>
> This is precisely my point: honey bees are not *in captivity* nor
> can they
> truly be said to be domesticated.

Sure they can.  from www.dictionary.com

1. To train or adapt (an animal or plant) to live in a human environment
and be of use to humans.
2. To introduce and accustom (an animal or plant) into another region;
naturalize.
3. A plant or animal that has been adapted to live in a human environment.

>In my opinion, hive bees are
> wild, for all
> intents and purposes. Unless you can show some significant difference
> between bees in hives and bees escaped to the woods, then the
> distinctionimplied by "feral" simply does not apply.

There have been a number of reports on this list that suggests that many
feral bees are somewhat genetically dissimilar to most "owned" bees. I
do not have the references at my fingertips, nor do I have any intention
of finding them - interested parties are welcome to use the search
feature.  Why?  Because it is irrelevant.  Bees in hives are owned,
managed, bred, and have specific traits selected by humans.  Should they
take off, voila, instant ferals.

Having said that I think it is a stretch to take a hive of bees, with a
commercially produced queen, who was bread for reduced swarming,
increased fecundity, a particular colot, disposition, resistance to
certain diseases, and a greater proclivity to store excess quantities of
honey etc., and not recognize that this beast is not "wild".  Just
because they can leave does't make them wild.  Or would it be correct to
assume that because your dog can skip out on you if it is ever off-lead
it is a "wild" animal?  Of course not.  Backyard chickens?  WIld? Nope.

We need to get our definitions correct if this discussion is to mean
anything.

Honeybees are clearly domesticated, that is, changed by the people that
manage them so that they "fit" with us better.  They can, therfore, be
feral in that they excape and fend for themselves. The definaiton of
feral is not time dependant.  Any domesticated animal that is running
loose and taking care of itself, regardless of the amount of time it is
in that state, is feral.

Keith "if no one can agree on terms, you will never get the ideas
strait" Benson

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