Hello B-Line members:

 Allen said:

> At the SBA meeting I recall seeing a presentation showing that long duration
>formic treatments do suppress brood rearing when applied in the spring, whereas
>the short duration treatments do not.

 In the long term treatment which was mentioned at the SBA the
 studied treatment was different from my treatment because of
 the following reasons:
 1. The tested pad was made from absorbing material used in boots. This
 material is soft and releases the formic acid at higher rates.
 2. The pad was placed directly on the top bars of the combs. When
 you apply the pad on this position, the formic acid will continuously
 evaporate at day time and night at higher rates becasue of the
 cluster temperature.  It is like placing a pan containing water on the
 top of your stove at 33C (clustet temperature).

 3. The formic acid vapor will go in between the frames and drive the
 bees and queens away from the combs. Thus, the egg laying and brood
 production will be affected.

> Allen said:
> At the same meeting, Medhat described the long term formic method
> he has adapted to Ontario conditions, but did not AFAIK
>  address this issue.

 Medhat reply:
 Ontario formic acid pads:
 1. I did not get into detalis because my talk was about IPM program
 in general and I was given 30 min which was cut to 20-25 minutes
 because of adding one more speaker at the end of the mornining
 session.
 2. I have all the data to suport that we did not find any significant
 effect on brood production in the spring when we tested the MiteAway
 pad:. The reasons are:

         a) the material we are using in the pad is dense and releases
            the formic acid slower than the other material used in the
            previous pad.
          b) we place the pad on 2 spacers which leave .5" between the
              top bar and the pad. Therefore, the pad is not affected
              by the cluster temperature and the evaporation will
              occur only based on the ambient temperature. A slide was
             shown in my talk but I did not comment to much about it
             because of time. It showed that the peak tempereture when
             acid evapoted was between about 11 am-3pm. During the
             application period there was 7 peaks. This makes our
             treatment as short term formic acid application.

          c) the room under and above the pad will allow the formic acid vapor
              to mix with air in the hives. Thus, the bees and queen
              will not be driven away from the combs.

 The only requirmnent to make this method of applying formic acid
 works, is to add 1 inch rim and you need to use inner cover. This
 will give room to accomedate the pad (5/8") and spacers (1/2") and
 about 1/2" on the top of the pad. Some beekeepers did not like this
 idea of having an extra piece on the top of the hive. However, we
were able to sell this idea to them by demonstrating if you place the pad
directly on the combs the brood production will be affected.

 Already Ontario beekeepers change their practice by nailing 1 inch
 rim to the inner cover and use this side of the cover for formic acid
 treatment. The other side of the sover (1/2") is used during honey production
 and wintering.

 The effects of the formic acid gel on brood production has never
 been tested as far as I know. In the instruction for use, it is
 placed directly of the top bars. I wonder how this will effect the
 brood production!!!!

 Regards,

 Medhat Nasr