> For once I seem to be standing on the side of conventional wisdom on the 
> subject of AFB over the last century. <snip>  The issue of a bee which can 
> tolerate a strong AFB issue comes up often. I think all agree the bees can 
> handle a light problem. Still researchers I have spoke with are very 
> divided on the subject.

I have to admit that I wake up wondering if I am crazy, going against such a 
formidable preponderance of opinion and history, but I have to go by the 
evidence before me.

I think the times have changed and I get confirmation from many experienced 
beekeepers and researchers with whom I discuss this.  There are some here 
lurking, and I would love to hear their opinion, even if it is opposite to 
mine, but I won't put anyone on the spot.  This is, as I recently found out, 
a politically explosive issue and many wish to avoid public controversy.

I recall that Marla Spivak, speaking in a session at Niagara Falls in 2002, 
suggested that beekeepers leave a yard or two without treatment and see what 
happens.  It was a shocking idea at the time and seemed like heresy, even to 
me, being a commercial operator running thousands of hives at the time.

In truth, I am not sure that she was speaking in the context of AFB, so much 
as in the context of another pest, but she did not say otherwise, and I have 
not forgotten; I have pondered those words ever since.

In mentioning that one thing, BTW, I not suggesting that she takes any side 
in this question.  I simply do not know what her present position is on the 
matter, if any.

Marla is one who has quietly put years of sweat and brainpower into the 
problem of hygiene, with amazing results.  Currently, I have heard that she 
is working to get the fruit of her efforts out to the public by consulting 
with many of the largest queen producers in the Southwest.  Anyone have 
recent details?  Gary Reuter spoke at EAS, and was available at various 
times for chat, but I did not think to ask him.  Duh!

>> As for tracheal and nosema,
> These are the microscope issues. Without checks the symptoms are only seen 
> in the late stage. I kept nosema apis in check because the foragers died 
> two weeks early.

I don't know about nosema.  I never see it, and I've looked (touch wood) but 
Tracheal mite problems should be relegated to the dustbin of history history 
if bees are purchased from a good supplier.  I made referrence in a recent 
post to a link to a Baton Rouge study showing that some producers sell 
consitently resistant stock.

> I believe in good stock also but I am willing to put up with the problems 
> of AFB and tracheal mites etc. to run what I consider are superior bees 
> *for my purposes.* When queen breeders are selecting for certain traits it 
> means  many times the traits I demand in my bees go by the wayside! Only 
> my opinion but a prolific bee which flies and hour earlier and later than 
> a hygienic bee suits my needs better. I have Australian bees which fly in 
> Light rain!

Indeed, each must make a decision as to what is important, but some 
commercials' refusal to consider their neighbours makes them public enemies, 
especially to those many beekeepers who are trying to improve the health of 
bees without constant treatment.

Harbouring or propagating susceptible bees is IMO, every bit as criminal as 
harbouring AFB -- and probably moreso -- if we are to legislate and 
criminalize beekeeping, which some jurisdictions do. (I am mostly against 
that and believe in education and moral suasion over legislation)

> To find the hygienic or varroa tolerant bee I need I would need to do the 
> selection and breeding myself and i simply do not have the time these 
> days.

Bob, I really have no idea how you find time to do everything you seem to be 
doing.

> I really do not buy into the idea that a bee breeder in Hawaii has a 
> better idea of the kind of bee I need as i do.

That is the point.  I don't consider Gus to be so much a queen breeder as a 
queen producer who has an enlightened approach, but I do not know what he is 
doing in terms of actual selection on site.  He is pretty humble and hates 
to make any claims, but when I ask, I find that he is quietly improving his 
stock by obtaining the best genetics he can from a variety of sources and by 
paying careful attention to any feedback.  Whatever he is doing, his queens 
are quite consistent.  It has been a while since I have had a chat with him, 
but he is at every meeting, listening.

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