>However US beekeepers have progressively eliminated what AMM stock that was
imported to US many years ago...

Guilty as charged. Every year our president pardons a turkey. In the same
manor I always kept at least one A.mm around for years but other than being
nasty bees to work they were very susceptable to brood disease. Even shaking
on foundation they needed constant watching for foulbrood.

>I think the reasons were twofold, first when Italian genes are
introduced into AMM populations, the normal docile behaviour
deteriorates and the bees become aggressive, even nasty.

In the fifties we had around forty colonies of A.m.m. and they were from an
import and they had many qualities we did not care for. I really can
remember little I cared for about the bees. In the seventies I got another
batch to try. Same bad traits. Both batches were exactly like Brother Adam
described in his writings.

Perhaps those bees would be OK for hobby beekeepers but certainly were not
an asset to the profit minded beekeeper. The Italians I work today and
replaced the A.mm with I can work with open pants legs and only a smoker.

Keeping a few hives of A.mm around for conversation pieces might be OK but
not my idea of the best bee for the commercial U.S. beekeeper. The Italian
bee is the prefered bee of commercial beekeeping the world over.

At meetings today I get in trouble over my *opinion* that I buy carniolan
only when I can not get Italians. This spring I got package bees with
carniolan queens from a 900 package shipment. None produced any honey while
the Italian stock off the same shipment made supers. They are strong hives
NOW (and most could  go into almonds) but the explosion Carniolan queen
breeders talk about did not happen with those bees. Some of those packages
ended up in the Dakota's and are strong *now* but produced no honey while
the italians produced 2 to 4 deeps full of honey. All were three pound
package bees.

These bees cost us money. The cost of the package, meds and labor. Even if
sold into almonds we will only break even.

What happened? In my opinion the queen breeder which sent the breeder queen
for the batch dropped the ball and selected for crap commercial beekeepers
care little about such as:
1. queen color.
2. wing length
and forgot about
1. prolific
2. honey production

>The other reason is that Italian bees were chosen on the false premise
that 'more bees make more honey' and Italian bees are noted for their
inappropriate over production of brood.

Italian bees side by side with all other races* I have used* will make at
least a super of honey better in honey production. When I find a better bee
( I am always trying other lines ) I will switch!

"fill a super with bees in a honey flow and the bees will fill the box with
honey"

I really like the Australian import Italians! These bees really produce. We
have got a video taken in California( shown at the spring 2005 KHPA meeting)
in almonds showing the Australian bees flying to almonds in RAIN (while
several of our best Italian lines huddled at the entrance).
Flew and hour earlier and an hour later than our U.S. italians. Also the
queens from Browns bees Australia are crossed with lines from italy (
imported into Australia through the Australian import system) which have
been exposed to varroa and bred for TM resistance and need no treatment for
tracheal mites.

>Bob Harrison on this list has criticised AMM as 'welfare bees' because
the colonies he kept did no good,

 If its any comfort I have got some U.S. lines which I consider welfare bees
also!

Little has changed since the year I was on the Irish Beekeeping list I can
see! I still hear the roar of the members when I voiced my opinion on A.mm
and also my never ending support of the work of Brother Adam! I agree with
his methods completely and used Buckfast bees for years till the quality of
my Buckfast queens went south.

>I think those that decided Italian bees were best for US made a wrong
choice,

I guess we will have to "agree to disagree"

>Another point is that US beeks seem to count their yield by the hive, I
think a fairer measure of yield is to count the honey weight per brood
box employed and the amount of beekeeper labour input.

What I am going to say some may say is impossible but I assure you its true
and done on a regular basis. In certain areas of the U.S. Italian bees on
huge areas of sweet clover will produce a 55 gallon barrel of honey for
every pallet of four hives in a matter of a few weeks. in fact  two deeps
filled in a week is not uncommon and a top producer will fill 4 to 6 deeps
on a strong flow.
Some of those locations have got 72 to 100 hives of bees.

While I was on the road last week looking at large commercial operations and
talking to commercial beekeepers in several states I saw excellent bees.
Australian import 2007 bees in South Dakota with fifteen frames of bees and
ready for transport to California for almonds. Pictures in my December ABJ
article.

I am beginning to believe the die off last fall (by certain beekeepers which
indeed did have huge losses) was mostly caused by weather (driest year since
the 1936 dust bowl days in my area), nosema and poor varroa control. Weather
is not bad  but still dry in many areas, most beekeepers are treating for
nosema and all I have spoke with have paid attention to varroa control and
many have went back to testing and treating if needed twice a year.

I have been very surprised that despite the CCD team saying not to reuse CCD
deadouts that those which did and treated for nosema and controlled varroa
are reporting the best bees in years! Even commercial beekeepers with bees
on known contaminated comb seem to have good bees this year. Some of their
bees look better than mine and I changed out all my comb which had chemical
strips used. My bees look best in years but still some of these guys bees
look as good or better.

The winter is not over yet and almond pollination is yet to come but from
what I see and hear CCD is going the route of the disappearing disease of
old. Happened in 2006 but not repeated in 2007.

From what I see there will only be a shortage( if a shortage)  in almonds
because of new trees needing bees as many beekeepers say they are going this
year which have not been since the drought hit. I have not talked to a
commercial Midwest beekeeper with CCD problems or bees doing poorly. Of
course many are worried as strong hives crashed in two weeks last fall but
so far so good!

Tomorrow I am calling out of state beekeepers for my article but last time
we talked their bees were best in years!

Sincerely,
Bob Harrison



-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

******************************************************
* Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at:          *
* http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm  *
******************************************************