Hello all,
After reviewing the cell size posts I have to say those on both sides of
issue are standing firm in their opinions. Many valid questions have been
raised. As Barry said research needs to be done. I agree enough of a
interest has been shown. Proven to me by Dadants going to make the 4.9mm
foundation so we can all see for ourselves.
Allen Dick says i didn't prove my case. I don't think i did to Allen but I
respect his views and say "we can agree to disagree". I also say to Allen he
didn't prove his case to me. Enough said!
Researchers need to look at several issues raised and find the answers.
1. Why Dee Lusbys 500+ hives are alive and producing honey without
treatments.
comment: Allen will say from the selective breeding. I say there is not one
shred of proof that the varroa tolerant trait is able to be bred for!
I agree U.S.D.A. lab has bees alive without treatments or so they say. I
agree Dee has many more hives alive or so she says. I say both have not got
proof as to why their hives are existing without treatments ONLY THEORYS.

2. Why varroa seems to not be a big problem to AHB on 4.9mm foundation
comment: Most researchers agree this is the case and wonder themselves.

3. Why varroa doesn't reproduce in A.cerana 4.7mm worker cells.
comment: Again a mystery. Cell size or missing trigger. I wish i knew!

After all these years looking at the issue its easy for me to see that none
of the theorys as to why varroa jumped AND WHEN from A. cerana to A.melifera
will ever be proven . Not mine or not Allens. Both have merits and will be
discussed at beekeeping meetings long after we are gone.

In my opinion from rereading the Lusby article in January 1998 Bee Culture
that her bees are not africanised. Kim Flottum editer says many were worked
without veils.page 28
Lester Hines the beekeeper working with the Tucson Bee lab says in his
article in the same issue (page 33 ) that his bees are African.

I believe the true test of Dees bees and the Tucson Labs bees will be by
raising the population levels. A fact of varroa and verified by my own
personal experiance is that strong hives are the hives most ravaged by
varroa. As a teenager  we raced cars. At idle all the motors held up. Crank
up the revolutions and many came apart. I hope the 4.9mm theory doesn't come
apart when populations and brood rearing is cranked up as is the case in the
Midwest. Once established in my test apiary i am going to set up two queen
units on 4.9mm foundation. ALL SUCH TESTS OF NOT TREATING THOSE HAVE ENDED
UP WITH DEAD COLONIES BY THE END OF THE SEASON. Is the reason European bees
are ravaged by varroa and not the African bees SIMPLY because most AHB
colonies never raise brood like the European hives do. Dr. Orley Taylor from
Kansas and i have discussed the issue and the years he researched AHB in
Mexico he NEVER let or had AHB raising the amount of brood our bees produce.
Maybe our friends working AHB can add their knowledge.Is the reason AHB
handles varroa better because they normally have smaller colonies instead
of the 4.9mm foundation? Does varroa ravage the AHB colonies raising the
most brood the most? I have no way of knowing! Help bee-L!

I have said i don't believe in breeding as the total answer. I wait to test
this super strain of varroa tolerant bees the USDA is breeding. I want to
bring those bees above a "idle"and see if they hold up. To me if they can't
produce honey and polinate they belong in bee  ICU. Only my opinion but the
other side has to prove to me their bees are indeed varroa tolerant. Write
all the papers you want but so far i haven't seen a strain of bees able to
live and produce honey as well as those hives treated with chemicals.

Will somebody please correct the data printed in ABC_XYZ of beekeeping and
other places. Quote page 643
Varroasis.-This affliction of honeybees is caused by the mite Varroa
Jacobsoni which was FIRST reported by Jacobson in Java in 1904 as a parasite
on Indian bees.A Indica Fabr.
comment: How can anyone say this parasite has been a parasite of bees for
milions of years! I demand proof Allen and others!

Quote page 643-The present distribution has extended to Russia where it was
first noticed in 1964,and on to other european countries in 1967.
Could somebody enlighten me as to why importers of the Russian queens are
saying the strain of Russian bees has survived varroa for eons! Maybe a
bee-l reader could put a name on the rsearcher which first documented varroa
on bees in Russia. According to this book and others Varroa was first
noticed in Russia only three years before Europe.
I feel i ask a valid question and want a name and date
.
In closing i believe the Russian bees need to be evaluated as to why they
are showing varroa tolerance which i agree they do and remain to be shown
that their offspring are as tolerant . I also wonder why Aaron declined to
report on his experiance with the Russian queens.Aaron i am still waiting!
Did you get your monies worth? Also after rereading all the posts i see only
Allen quoting a couple articles in Aug. ABJ for proof of his ideas and
Theorys. Allen i say those articles prove my opinions and theorys!
I imagine this post will be deleted as many of mine are but to the
moderators i say:
only weak minds follow without question!
The debate has been fun and hope we can all agree to disagree as finding two
beekeepers to agree on what they are looking at in a hive is very hard!

Sincerely,

Bob Harrison

Thanks Dadant and sure you won't regret your decision!