Dean said:
> Don't get me wrong...clean is good, really clean is even better, but there
> are downsides for total sterilization....

Pete said:
>Seems like I Dean and I disagree on a lot of things. But not this. The move
>to sterilize everything has had many negative consequences for health and
>aesthetics as well.

Clorox solution disinfects. Sterilization is different and involves heat but 
I know what you guys meant;


>We are huge fans of raw apple cider. NY State came in and mandated that
>apple cider be pasteurized.

Complaints and problems are what gets the attention of health departments.

>. Neither honey nor apple cider need to be pasteurized. These are raw
>agricultural products and should be classed as such, not slipped into the
>same category as milk or meat.

The problem is shelf life with apple cider. You compare apples to oranges?

 >The level of sanitation required should fit the product, not the notions
of misinformed government regulators.

Misinformed has never been my opinion of health department people. Most I
have been involved with simply point out simple problems but will NOT let
serious issues slide.

I have learned from these people. I have a friend county health inspector.
He is very tolerant of the ignorant offender but will shut down the
operation of a repeat offender.

Politics always enter into laws. packers pushing for laws which match the
ways they process is good for their business. reduces competition and *in
their opinion* protects the integrity of their product.

If a problem arises with one apple cider seller then all sellers of apple
cider lose out through lost sales.

I had a recent issue with the health department over a competitor refilling
my used jars with his honey and not changing the label. Needless to say the
beekeeper is not refilling my containers nor even selling at markets till he
gets his act together.

Yes I called the health department.

sellers of raw products can sell whatever they want including raw milk to
their friends but when you move into stores the situation changes. Strict
laws apply in most areas.

I follow the rules even if I might not totally agree and expect my
competition to do the same.

A word to beekeepers thinking of selling to U.S.  stores. many stores will
call the health department to check if a beekeeper has been inspected as a
normal practice. If the beekeeper has been inspected then the health
department says so. If not then the process starts. If a health inspector is
in the store and sees a new label on the shelves the process starts.

bob

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