> In a similar manner, those who are worried that plastics heated to
anything
> less than around 200 degrees will somehow release chemicals into food are
> repeating old wives tales.  That said, there are many kinds of plastics
and
> I am certain that some may vaporize chemicals...but not those common
> plastics that are commonly used in food applications, and that includes
the
> plastics used in the manufacture of 5 gallon pails.  Many plastics,
> including polypropylene and polyethylene can and are heated to near 200
> degrees as a matter of course and, if handled properly, will show no
damage.

Hmmm. Old wives tales, eh?   I must be hitting close to the bone.

After all that, I see the words "if handled properly".  That's the point.
If people are melting the pails, what =is= the temperature?  Also I see
"near 200 degrees", isn't that around the temperature of boiling water?
When heat belts or hot air are used, what about the parts of the pail (hot
spots) that are not well cooled by honey?

I thought I might hit a nerve when pointing out that virtually all methods
used commercially for handling honey damage it and that many common
container materials are only appropriate for use at normal shelf
temperatures.  I actually didn't expect it from the guy who markets one of
the few alternatives to damaging honey -- comb honey.  I realise that Loyd
is likely an expert on plastics by now, since he is manufacturing Ross
Rounds and lekley reading a lot of technical stuff, but I do not share his
confidence that beekeepers are in the safe zone when using plastic pails and
plastic paints, etc.

Granted, the damages to honey by today's processing are subtle, and for
those who regard honey as just another sweetner or a mass commercial
product, these effects don't matter.  For those who use honey medicinally or
have gourmet taste buds, even the slight damage caused by commercial packing
can render honey worthless.

We all know how honey is processed today.  Commercial beekeepers typically
use heat up to a max of 120 F (measured at the contact surfaces) .  Many use
lower heat, and it is usually only over a matter of minutes to remove large
chunks of wax and debris.  Honey in cappings is often subject to much more
heat over a longer duration.   Packers typically heat honey to 160 F for
only a few moments, but they also typically hold that honey in vats for a
day or more at about 130 F before running it through.

We all know what is done, but the question is whether it is right.  I know
that one of the best built, managed and certified honey packing plants in
the world darkens the honey it handles 100% from the time it enters the
plant to the time it leaves.  The colour number doubles from start to
finish.  When it leaves the plant it is pasteurized, filtered so that the
pollen is gone and IMO, it is not really honey anymore.  It is not the honey
that I taste when I eat burr comb in the beeyard or the honey I eat when I
sample packaged comb honey from markets or stores.

I know I am stepping on toes here.  Commercial beekeepers need packing
plants and packing plants need heat and lots of it.  They are in competition
for markets and want to use the cheapest process possible because the mass
market does not seem able to distinguish good honey from bad, at least in
the short run.  If they cannot recover the added cost of improved handling,
then they have no incentive to seek new and technologically advanced methods
of achieving higher quality.  Unfortunately, because most of the honey
offered to the public is either mass processed or from small operators who
very often misunderstand and mishandle honey, the public has turned slowly
away from our product and we are losing ground in the marketplace.

I am talking here about the output of honest producers and packers and not
considering the impact of adulteration, which is rampant worldwide and
destroys our incentive to produce a premium product by diminishing the price
spread between honey and cheap sweetners as well as diminishing the
differences apparent to consumers.  I understand that as I write, a shipment
of NZ manuka honey is in detention in Canada, since it tested positive for
around seven percent corn syrup.

Economics are driving the honey production and packing industry and our
product is a poor shadow of what the bees make.  The fact remains that the
best honey is honey in the comb, and preferrably comb made without
manufactured foundation.

Anything less is less.  We all know it, but we don't like to face the fact.
Any air, any knives, any augers, any extractors, any pumps, any heat
exchangers, any tanks, and any containers that touch that honey on the way
to your mouth change the honey subtly.

And not for better.

allen