Hi Bob -

> AHB has made the *Bee Experts* and AHB predicters wrong.

This is very true. Just read what Lance Parr just wrote:

"No AHB around Navasota?  Not true.  Grimes county (home of R. Weaver and B.
Weaver Apiaries at Lynn Grove) borders Washington and Austin Counties, both
of which are quarantined."

>> How is it that there are supposedly these random boundaries that no AHB's
>> have crossed? Example: No AHB's to deal with right around Navasota, TX,
>> yet  they can be found much further North, even in mountainous areas with
>> colder  climates?
> We really don't know the answer (at least I don't) because AHB migrated
> approx 300 miles per year from the release in Brazil each year.

I think we really DO know the answer and it is stated above by Lance. Common
sense will tell us that the AHB will migrate, at the very least, to all
states and locations that have the same climatic conditions and habitat that
the bees are currently in, does it not?

> I was one
> of the advocates for the American Foulbrood tainted syrup place in the area
> of the Panama Canal.

Nothing personal, but I'm glad it got voted down. To think we can contain
such an insect with our various contraptions is outlandish. A good way to
spend a lot of money for nothing.

> Barry you and Dee are going to have to let this subject die or provide at
> least one beekeeper to come forward and say he or she  imported or received
> A. mellifera S.  from the U.S.D.A..

Did I say USDA? There are other researchers and scientists besides those at
the USDA. But I wouldn't rule them out either. Talk to Dee about her
thoughts, these are mine. Since the beginning of our time, people have been
trading and moving bees by land and sea. Think about it Bob, to someone
who's work and livelihood revolves around bees, you don't think they would
try to get and study all different kinds of honey bees from all over the
world? You live in a different world than I if you think this sort of thing
doesn't happen. Can I "prove" it? Not in the fashion you ask for. Does that
mean it hasn't happened? No. Just look at anything in our society that isn't
suppose to happen and you will find plenty of people who will make it their
goal to make it happen. I'm sure you've heard of Prohibition. It's even said
that African queens were listed for sale in early issues of the bee
journals.

> Please provide proof instead of opinions and ideas.

Careful, I see a lot of other people share opinions and ideas here. :>)

> theories then maybe Dee *could* ship her queens legally out of the AHB
> quarentine area ? Hmmm.

Quarantine area? None where they live. Since their bees are officially NOT
AHB's, that pretty much leaves it open for them to ship where they want.
Hmmm. Kind of like the Weavers officially not AHB even though AHB is all
around them. See how that doublespeak comes into play again. Sure is
frustrating isn't it? Both have AHB's all around yet you seem to say one has
them in their bees and another one doesn't.

> The traits of A.mellifera scutellata have got no place in commercial
> migratory beekeeping. It is against the law to keep A.mellifera s. in
> Missouri.

Then is it against the law to keep Italian bees that exhibit these same
traits? Will I bee arrested for having "hot" bees even though mine are
Italian?

> ALL 200 members of the Missouri Beekeepers Assn. voted to ban the
> bee.

This is fine as long as the bee stays away on its own. How will you succeed
at "banning" the bee from your state when we weren't able to "ban" it from
our border? You've said before on this list that you take your bees down to
Texas in the winter. How do you manage to keep from bringing any AHB genes
back into Missouri? Do you AI all your queens? I'd be interested in knowing
how you deal with this problem.

> You can keep AHB.

It's not a question of keeping it or not. If it's here, we have it. It's
really a question of what is the truth about this bee, and where is the open
discussion, without all the hype, on how to co-exist with it. I still think
this paper that was published in 1986 is the most balanced out there on the
subject.
http://www.beesource.com/pov/ahb/bcsept86.htm
Have you even read the USDA's final report on the African bee problem?
http://www.beesource.com/pov/ahb/abjoct1974.htm

>These are not bees I want to work with. If the SMR queens
> work out my bees will be varroa free and I will not have had to melt ten
> years worth of comb and put up with AHB genes like in Arizona.

We all choose what path to take. I wish you and everyone else success. I
have no axe to grind with your choices and enjoy our discussion very much.

Regards,
Barry