Bob said:

>> At this point about all I can do to tell if the above products worked
>> is to put in a 98% control strip in for 24 hours with a sticky board
>> and count the dead varroa.

And Allen said:

> ...how can you *know* that you get 98% kill by using any chemical,
> without either doing follow-up alcohol washes before and after, or
> without doing natural drops after?

I think that Bob's approach is a sound one, in that the 24-hour drop
test with Apistan has become the "gold standard" test used in studies,
state apiarists, and extension folks, and has the largest base of
published data behind it.

The point is that the 24-hour drop test is a consistent test.

Of course, a 24-hour "natural drop" is also a consistent test,
but Bob is correct in concluding that doing one so soon after
any sort of treatment could skew the numbers.  I dunno how
long after treatment a 24-hour "natural drop" would be valid,
but I'd guess a week would be enough of a wait.

...and yeah, all this assumes that you do not have resistant varroa.
That's a whole 'nother level of complexity.


As an aside, the recent thread about a "Golden Age Of Beekeeping"
prompts me to muse thusly:

1)  The average beekeeper knows more now than ever before.
    Yes, much of the education has been prompted by invasive
    exotic pests and diseases, but the spin-off has been that
    "leave alone beekeeping" is no longer possible, so being
    educated is now a mission-critical survival tactic.

2)  As such, we have developed a much more aggressive attitude,
    almost a siege mentality about keeping our bugs alive.
    No such motivation existed before.  More educated and
    motivated people implies more progress as a result.

3)  We also have all the internet sites and mailing lists, so
    a certain fraction of beekeepers can communicate at whim,
    with more joining in the discussions (arguments? riots?)
    every day.  We also have better access to the official
    information and published science.  Most of us live in
    countries where inter-library loan is 100% free, or can
    be had for no more than the cost of the postage, so I am
    not just talking about the internet here.

4)  We also have much higher-quality work being done by those
    who do the studies and research.  Part of this is technology,
    and part of this is the enhanced rigor of the hard sciences
    having an impact on the minimum rigor expected of those who
    publish in bee-related areas.

5)  We have better tools, stainless steel is now the default
    material for honey handling, and toys like digital cameras,
    scanners, and video recorders allow us to simply "press send"
    to share the more unusual puzzlements with others.  No one
    attempts to haul hives with horses any more, and this alone
    saves an uncounted number of hives from destruction.

6)  We even have (gasp!) STANDARDS, one of them being the 24-hour
    drop test.  When you agree on standards, progress accelerates.
    Maybe someday, we can even get an actual standard for the
    implementation of bee space among the various makers of woodenware.  :)

So at risk of sounding Panglossian, THIS is the best of all possible
times, and to quote Carly Simon, "THESE are the good old days".

The mere fact that we can all get real-time first-hand field reports
from someone testing a new product should be clear proof.

   jim (A member of the Council For A Better Day After Tomorrow)

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