I think the point of choosing from the best is to avoid the really bad
genetics, and avoid colonies that may be missing important characteristics.

It's not too hard to understand the value of genetic diversity.  So, yes,
breeding from the best and only the best queends/drones is probably not such
a good idea.

And I understand a colony is like a city, we need differences in order to
cover all of the needs of a colony, and possible disease that may occur.
When I say choose the "best" I don't mean the best drones, I mean choose to
rear queens from the best colonies, but let them open mate in order
introduce diversity.

Seems like in most cases, strictly limiting genetics in the "bad"  ways that
are being alluded to in other posts would be very hard for most beekeepers
to do.  So really if we select a well performing colony as our for our queen
rearing  stock, we are selecting a mix of various genetics that seemed to do
well together.  We are not choosing a "narrow" range of genetics because
that colony has a broad range of genetics already.

I'll suggest that regardless of how wide or narrow the diversity is in
commercially produced queens, the queen market, and the  commercial breeders
could very well be biasing the genetics away from healthy honey producing
colonies.  Here is why.

If a breeder makes his money by selling queens, colonies that make it easy
for him to rear and sell queens will get an advantage in his operation.
Maybe not on purpose.  But there will be a bias in favor of those colonies
no matter what.  And those traits may not be the same traits that would be
best for honey producers, or healthy low maintenance colonies.

And queen breeders may not have good mechanisms for removing poor performing
genetics from their product..  If the health and productivity of my colonies
is reduced by 30% next year how will I know if it was due to the queens I
bought, or some other factors?  And even if I proved that I had bought
queens that mothered poor producing colonies, and even if I feed this news
back to the queen breeder, how likely is it that he will in some way be able
to change his bloodlines and no longer propagate queens mothering this bad
mix of genetics?

If I'm raising my own queens, and I have a bad year, I'll probably get some
die-outs.  And those die-outs will remove colonies that lacked the ability
to survive.

So, with all of that said, I think breeding from the best "colonies" in a
honey producer's bee yard is probably exactly what a honey producer should
do.  And since most of us non II breeders will not be controlling drones
very closely we will continue to get diversity.

This is how it seems to me.

Kevin


On 10/8/07, Peter L. Borst <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> A recent Bee-L post:  There is a simple technique anyone can employ. And
> that is *breed from your (overall) best stock*.  Has proved to be a
> remarkably effective technique for thousands of years.
>
>
>
> * Breeding from the best is probably a good strategy if you are raising
> race
> horses or milk cows, but it may be a fatal mistake that the breeders of
> bees
> have been committing for decades. Of course, at one time, in the age of
> bee
> skeps and sulfur, the best hives were the first to go! The beekeepers
> would
> "heft" the skeps and the light ones were killed and harvested because they
> probably wouldn't survive, and the heavy ones were also killed, because
> they
> were too good to pass up. So, the average hives were the ones that were
> spared!
>
> * As beekeepers got smarter, they figured the ones they wanted to keep
> were
> the ones that did the best, but the question has always been: Why do some
> hives do better than others? Is it pedigree? Young queens? Luck of the
> draw?
>
> * But seriously, for the past *twenty years* evidence has been mounting
> that
> not only are the accepted methods of bee breeding not effective in
> producing
> the desired result, but they may be completely wrong in light of the
> mechanisms nature has to ensure the continued health and prosperity of
> honey
> bee colonies. Health and prosperity is what we all seek in the end,
> because
> without these, no enterprise can be called "sustainable".
>
> * I quoted this recently, but it serves as a good introduction to what
> follows:
>
> > Some researchers are wondering if commercial honey bee stocks are based
> on
> too narrow a genetic base—and that this makes them vulnerable to diseases.
> To be effective, behavioral defences in particular require a high level of
> genetic variation within colonies. This allows colonies to respond
> resiliently to the variety of pathogenic and other challenges they face.
> If
> all workers are the same, they may solve one problem brilliantly but be
> more
> vulnerable to others. (from: "What's Killing American Honey Bees?" By
> Benjamin P. Oldroyd, in Public Library of Science, Biology, June 2007)
>
>
>
> *  Twenty years ago, Tom Seeley and others were starting to form the idea
> that there must be a reason why honey bees mate with dozens of different
> drones, when even one could adequately do the job.
>
> > Here we introduce a new hypothesis, not explicitly considered
> previously:
> polyandry [multiple mating] increases genetic variation within colonies,
> thereby reducing the likelihood that parasites or pathogens will diminish
> the worker/defense force to the point of jeopardizing the colony's
> survival
> and reproduction.
>
> > The parasite/pathogen hypothesis assumes that the characteristics (e.g.,
> virulence) of the parasites and pathogens afflicting colonies in
> successive
> generations are always unpredictable, because of parasite-host
> coevolution.
> This uncertainty forces queens to mate with several males, because they
> cannot reliably choose one male carrying resistance to the particular
> diseases that may afflict their workers as immatures, adults, or both.
>
> > Queens of A. mellifera and A. cerana mate with a larger number of males
> than any other known Hymenoptera (7-17 times or more and 14-30 times,
> respectively. These two honeybee species also harbor a broad array of
> viral,
> bacterial, fungal, and protozoan diseases, as well as parasitic mites and
> nematodes.
>
> > Given that diseases and parasites are ubiquitous and that their
> transmission is probably a universal hazard and cost of group living,
> thwarting such enemies may be an important force favoring multiple mating
> in
> social animals in general and in social insects in particular. (from:
> "Parasites, Pathogens, and Polyandry in Social Hymenoptera" by Paul W.
> Sherman; Thomas D. Seeley; Hudson K. Reeve, in The American Naturalist,
> Apr., 1988)
>
>
>
> * Dave Tarpy further explored this theory by comparing colonies with *one
> father* to ones with many different fathers:
>
> > I instrumentally inseminated honeybee queens with semen that was either
> genetically similar (from one male) or genetically diverse (from multiple
> males), and then inoculated their colonies with spores of Ascosphaera apis
> [chalkbrood], a fungal pathogen that kills developing brood. I show that
> genetically diverse colonies had a lower variance in disease prevalence
> than
> genetically similar colonies, which suggests that genetic diversity may
> benefit colonies by preventing severe infections.
>
> > Increased genetic diversity affects the division of labour within
> colonies
> by creating a worker force that is collectively more 'average'. This
> effect
> on worker tasks is particularly pronounced for behaviours that are
> strongly
> influenced by genotype and have a significant impact on colony phenotype,
> such as hygienic behaviour.
>
> > It is unclear whether polyandry evolved in honeybees in response to
> parasites and pathogens, or if reducing the variance in disease prevalence
> is an inevitable consequence of multiple mating. It is clear, however,
> that
> increased genetic diversity within colonies provides them with several
> benefits, and thus should be viewed as a trait with pluralistic
> consequences. Future work should determine the impact of other parasites
> and
> pathogens and the relative fitness benefits of these multiple mechanisms.
> (from: "Genetic diversity within honeybee colonies prevents severe
> infections and promotes colony growth" by David R. Tarpy, in Proceedings,
> Royal Society. Biological Sciences. 2003 January 7)
>
>
>
> * Most recently, Heather Mattila showed that not only does multiple mating
> affect the colonies' health, but it also seems to lead to colonies that
> produce more bees, more honey, and ultimately allows them to survive where
> single father colonies do not:
>
> > Colony size is closely tied to fitness; larger colonies produce more
> drones, have higher winter survival, and issue more swarms. Intracolonial
> genetic diversity resulted in considerably more populous and resource-rich
> colonies, which in turn affected their fitness. Genetically diverse
> colonies
> reared significantly more drones than genetically uniform colonies before
> brood rearing declined in September. The larger, genetically diverse
> colonies also collected and stored more food than genetically uniform
> colonies and all survived a late-August cold period that starved and
> killed
> 50% of genetically uniform colonies. The remaining genetically uniform
> colonies exhausted their food reserve and died by mid-December, whereas
> 25%
> of genetically diverse colonies survived to May. (from: "Genetic Diversity
> in Honey Bee Colonies Enhances Productivity and Fitness" by Heather R.
> Mattila and Thomas D. Seeley, in Science July 19, 2007)
>
> * Just what this all means for the bee industry is not certain. However, I
> have talked to several beekeepers who do not purchase queens, but
> systematically divide the best hives in spring, thereby ensuring that
> their
> colonies have a great diversity of queen *and* drone lines. If I were a
> queen breeder (which I am currently not) I would be thinking about getting
> as many *different types* of bees as possible and seeing if a really
> diverse
> mixture of types in every colony would have a beneficial effect on honey
> bee
> health and prosperity.
>
> Peter Borst
> Danby, NY  USA
>
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