Bob & Liz <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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Almost all U.S.queen breeders have been in business many many years. Post
the positive and let the Bee-L people choose. Example would be the last
weeks comments on Weavers. All was positive about bees and service with one
complaint about a SMR queen being a dud. I thought we were going to get a
explanation why the queen was a *dud*?
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This was in reference to my earlier post in which I wrote:
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The only problem that I had with them was that the queen (one of the new Harbo SMR experimental queens) turned to be a dud.    More about that in another post.
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Sorry for the delay in posting the explanation.  Here it is.  I'm *really* interested in feedback about what might have caused this (if you're so inclined - either on or off list).

First the explanation for why I concluded the queen was a "dud:"  She never did lay after she was released, and queen cells appeared almost immediately.  I found her during two inspections, but within about two weeks, she disappeared.

Was she a defective, or just "not accepted?"  Or, was she "not accepted" because she was defective in some way?

Here are the details for those who are interested:

The SMR queen was purchased with a 2# package.  I picked up the package at the breeder and installed it the next afternoon in a new hive (new top, bottom, deep body, & stand, painted white, on top of cinder blocks) with four frames of mixed eggs, larvae, capped brood, pollen, & a small amount of capped honey, four frames (new) with wired foundation, and a division feeder full of 1:1 syrup.  The package was well gorged on 1:1 syrup prior to introduction.  The four frames of comb were in the middle with two frames of foundation on either side.  I pulled the cork from the candy end of the cage, and suspended the cage between the middle two frames of eggs & brood.  It was a calm, sunny day and I used no smoke.  The hive was on the end of a row of 4 colonies spaced about 4 ft apart.  Two days later workers were seen returning from the field with pollen and orientation flights seemed to have ceased.  Everything looked normal for a recently installed package, at least from the outside.

I didn't disturb them for a full week other than sliding the cover over far enough to refill the feeder three days after installation.  When I inspected them for the first time I found the queen cage empty, but no eggs in the empty cells.  They were well on their way to drawing out the foundation.  I removed the cage and refilled the feeder.  I did a quick inspection of the four frames of comb, but I didn't find the queen.  Two days later I looked in on them again and found the queen roaming the combs, but still no eggs.  I presume that it was the same queen that had been released from the cage that came with the package, but she wasn't marked so I can't be absolutely certain.  I also found supersedure cells.  I decided to cut the supersedure cells out in anticipation of getting a replacement queen.  Three days later I inspected the colony again and found the exact same thing: queen still wandering the combs, but no eggs.  Two weeks after installation I still found no eggs, and now no queen.

The breeder personally placed the package in my car when I picked it up, and told me to be sure to let him know how they did since it was an experimental queen.  He seemed sincere, and recalling this I called several times during those two weeks and left messages that I wanted to talk to him about the SMR queen and to ask his advice, but I never did hear back from him.  The last time I left a message I explained why I wanted to talk to him, and I was reminded by the office manager that their policy is that they don't guarantee successful introduction, and that a queen would only be replaced if she was dead in the cage.  I told her that that wasn't the case in this situation, but I still wanted to talk to the breeder to let him know what had happened and ask his advice on how I might avoid this problem again if I tried another SMR queen.  I never did hear from him so I ordered a Russian queen from another breeder.  I received and installed her using a push in cage over empty cells during the third week, leaving them alone for another week with the intention of manually releasing her.  When I next inspected them I found that the comb had been chewed from around the push in cage (which now had several workers milling around in it), and no signs of the queen.  And, obviously, still no eggs.  I gave them another couple of frames of eggs & brood, hoping that they would try to rear a queen again (this time I would mind my own business and leave the queen cells alone), but they didn't.  Needless to say, I wound up with laying workers & a bunch of spotty drone brood.  Conventional wisdom is that I should have combined this colony with another one by now, but I'm determined to learn as much as I can (IE:  My ego just won't let me admit defeat) so I decided to try the technique of shaking all bees out of the hive a couple hundred yards away to get rid of the laying workers, and try introducing a queen of more conventional genetic (Italian) material .  My "experiment" is still in progress.

Was the queen a dud or was she just "not accepted?"    I though that if a queen was not accepted she was balled or stung to death right off the bat, and not allowed to roam the hive for a week or so until they decided to throw her out (or whatever they do with queens that don't function normally).  And what might have been her problem, anyway?  I understand that the genetic differences make successful introduction tricky (I'm fairly certain that's what went wrong with the Russian, no question there).  But would that cause her to not lay?  Or did I mess up by installing them on mixed eggs, larvae & brood?  I've been doing it that way for years and haven't had problems, but this was the first time I've tried this with a "non-mainstream" queen.

FWIW:  Someone asked me earlier today if my issue was with the failed installation or with the breeder.  My issue is with the breeder not returning my phone calls, particularly after he solicited my feedback.  I also feel like offering to replace the queen, particularly in light of the acknowledged experimental nature of this queen, would have been a nice gesture.  I'll not name names again.  And I didn't warn anyone not to buy from this breeder, I only noted that I've chosen to buy elsewhere in the future.

I like to experiment, and I was really looking forward to trying this particular SMR bee.  I'm disappointed that it didn't work out.  My experimentation continues, however, with three hives of Russians that I'll post a report on if anyone's interested.  So far I've not noted any of the aggressiveness that others have warned of, but they're only one to two months established.

Comments?

Take care,

Lance Parr
Network Specialist II
Physical Plant Telecommunications
Texas A&M University
Mail Stop 1371
College Station, Texas  77843-1371
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(979) 458-1746