Randy said:
has been widely
> touted, and well fed into by your contributions, even if you have
> carefully
> not made that specific statement.

I do not believe that the neonicotinoids are the NUMBER ONE killer of bees
in the world.

I do believe many bees are killed every year by the systemics. I have read
the Bayer , Ortho and Union Carbide research and the research has not
convinced me the systemics are safe around bees.

I have seen the hives crashing coming out of orange , melons, pumpkins and
along the edges of corn fields. The fact that Randy Oliver or Brian Ames
feel there is enough research to eliminate the neonicotinoids as problems
for bees does not change what I have seen first hand.

>
I find it disingenuous for you to back
> off at this point.

I think Allen said it best in his post .I am certainly not backing off my
opinion on the neonicotinoids!


> However, I am glad to see you publicly denounce the hypothesis.

I do not believe the neonicotinoids are the NUMBER ONE killer of bees in the
world.

 Bob, now that you have renounced that neonics (among other possible causes
> that you have promoted) are the cause of CCD, I'm sure that the List is
> keenly interested in what your current hypothesis is.

I think you and Brian need to get your facts correct. Bayer has twisted your
mind so you can't think straight. To say there is absolutely no research
which points to the systemics being a problem for bees when PPM is being
found in pollen and nectar seems funny to me. Many beekeepers you know get 
up at meetings you attend and give loss reports when hives are in fields of 
the neonicotinoids. Dave Mendes, dave Hackenberg, Gene Brandi, David 
elingsworth and others. Are all these guys wrong? These guys started seeing 
losses when the neonicotinoids came on the market.(like I did)

>
> I'm fresh back from showing some visiting Australians my test yard where
> we
> created CCD-like collapses under controlled conditions.

Wow! You can produce CCD (when nobody really knows what it is) at will (kind
of like magic).
Are you sure its CCD or that your bees are like *most of the bees in
California*. Kick the hive and the hive collapses?

bob

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