> quote:
> " PMS mimics other diseases , So far ,no specific pathogen has been
> identified , so confirmation of field symptoms with lab analysis is not yet
> possible"
Bob's quote of Dewey Caron and Jim's response are instructive. One of 
the major problems with CCD identification is that PMS comes very close 
to the same symptoms, so much so that many, if not most, beekeepers 
would have no trouble in thinking they have CCD when it is PMS.

The initial samples of KBV and what became PMS came from Maine and the 
reported symptoms were identical to CCD. It is interesting that the 
symptoms found by those in Maryland differed only in degree from those 
found initially in Maine. Which gets me back to my postulate that "All 
beekeeping is local". PMS is not a discrete set of symptoms that are 
apparent in every colony at any time there is an infection. We all know 
that PMS symptoms can appear without colony collapse or can occur and 
never be seen until after the collapse. It is a continuum. The close it 
gets to its extreme, the close it gets to CCD in its symptoms.

If you have a mild winter and fall like Maryland compared to Maine, you 
may be closer to CCD symptoms in the more extreme climate since 
conditions would favor a more rapid collapse of the colony. The key to 
fall and winter mite kill is the closeness of the bees in the hive. The 
close they are the quicker disease spreads. Northern falls and winters 
have a much quicker onset of cold which would tend to cause a quicker 
onset of symptoms and collapse. So Northern reported CCD may be mostly 
mite and virus related.

Jim's reply is correct, in my opinion, since I agree that CCD, as 
reported by Jerry, is not mite related but is exactly what has been 
identified in the literature well before mites ever visited our shores. 
It may still be viral related, but that is questionable.

The issue of discrete CCD symptoms also rules out insecticides, since 
they also are a continuum of symptoms. You will not find an abrupt 
collapse but will have colonies in different states as well as bees with 
different degrees of symptoms, as was seen in France with gaucho. It was 
fairly easy to see the symptoms in various stages compare to CCD which 
is quick and lethal.

All that said, the incidence of CCD is probably very small, especially 
compared to mite related problems.

Maybe the work done by the Penn group will be beneficial, but only if 
they work the mite part of the problem. Otherwise they will be like a 
group of scientists looking at the impact debris from a meteor strike 
and assume it to be the cause while ignoring the large smoldering rock 
in the center.

Bill Truesdell
Bath, Maine

******************************************************
* Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at:          *
* http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm  *
******************************************************