Hello All,
Interesting topic. Being on the front line of the issue I see good points
made by all sides. Each month we learn new things about varroa but still
quite a bit we do not understand.

"Bill Truesdell" wrote:
> Since the virus and Varroa are linked, an increase in Varroa
> "overpowers" the colony.
>
> Varroa is the problem. Otherwise we would monitor for the virus.

We learned early on that  when you see varroa populations explode you
normally see an increase in virus. Dr. Shiminuki named the problem PMS. PMS
can be mistaken for many common brood diseases by the untrained beekeeper.
Even foulbrood!

 I have not heard from Dr. Norman Carrick in awhile but Norman tells me in
hives in which the viruses are eliminated the bees can tolerate a high
varroa load. Norman never said or emailed the method used to control the
viruses and I suspect his findings were simply seeing hives without viruses
could tolerate a higher varroa load. Maybe Norman will come on and comment.

Simply put from my own research. Hives can tolerate a higher varroa load
before PMS occurs. Not rocket science!

Threshold has been described in posts in two ways.

1. level of varroa reached to begin treatment.

Many factors too numerous to even discuss enter in the scenario and the
number figure needs to be found for your area and  situation through
monitoring and prior experience.

 Most beekeepers simply stop by the bee supply house and throw every med the
supply house suggests at their bees without any testing.

2. Level at which treatment is a waste of time and money.

I learned the hard way trying to save a hive of bees over threshold for
saving the hive. Simply put when varroa and PMS reach a certain level the
hive is going to die.

Actually giving an exact figure for threshold for a researcher is like
placing your head on the chopping block unless you make sure the beekeeper
understands the figure is *only* a simple reference point and not an
absolute figure.

I am always amazed when I have spoke by phone with Wyatt Mangum and he can
tell me the *exact* number of varroa in each of his hives on a weekly basis.

I would have little time for BEE-L if I counted every varroa on a sticky
board!

I teased L. Cutts when he told me he counted over 8,000 small hive beetles
in a single hive.

I asked if he also counted the SHB eggs and larva numbers?

My point is that when you start doing testing on a regular basis (Allen Dick
will agree I am sure) you can quickly look at a sticky board and make a
decision on if to treat or not or when the hive is approaching threshold.

I make the *final* decision on treatment at the last time of fall a
treatment can be done for the reasons Jim Fischer posted.

I do not treat the Russians because if they are not varroa tolerant I really
do not want those in my program. Beekeepers are beginning to associate me
with Russians because I am testing Russians. The testing is not yet
complete. I see things I like and a few things I do not like.
I will say many of what people say about Russians does not (or has not been
my experience) apply to Russian/Russian lines I have worked with.
I love the fact that the Russian/Russians I have worked with almost always
requeen after swarming. My queens of other lines from many sources only do
about 50% of the time.
When I find the Russian bee I want I plan on taking a page from Purvis
Brothers Apiaries and adding a frame of drone brood *all year long and not
removing* to increase varroa pressure to cull the dinks.\

I challenge all labs doing varroa research to do the same when looking for
varroa tolerant bees. Even the Russians were treated at first in Baton Rouge
I have been told.

I found varroa threshold for my area in regular production hives by leaving
some hives untreated at  different levels of infestation. Worth the loss in
my opinion!

Sincerely,
Bob Harrison

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