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Subject:
From:
Murray McGregor <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Tue, 25 Nov 2003 08:21:45 +0000
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In article <001d01c3b2d9$2e4ab080$f23674d5@oemcomputer>, Christine Gray
<[log in to unmask]> writes
>Now that remark, plus my next, may  make beekeeperers in all advanced
>countries smirk with self satisfaction.  Sloppily made hives?   Ha, ha.

Does not make me smirk. I have plenty equipment whose origins are lost
in the mists of time, some of it home made, by various beekeepers,
including my own father, whose boxes made in the winter of 1949, from
timber salvaged from wartime tractor packing cases from north America,
are all still in service (and satisfactory). The second hand ones he got
his first bees in, in the spring of 1950, are also still around, and
very good they are too and will see me out. No idea how old they are,
but apparently they were a long way from new when he got them.

Different timber sources, of different types, and difference levels of
dryness, plus creative interpretation of sizing (not only by the DIY
beekeeper) all go together to make many outfits contain a rag-bag of
slightly varying gear, and mine is no different.

However, none of it is falling to pieces, as would need to be the case
if levering the bars over a bit is going to cause the side to come out.
Any box like that is removed asap, and sent home for either economic
repair or burning. We probably come across perhaps 20 a year maximum
which have reached the end of the road that way. ( Most of the bad ones
are from a consignment made in 1970 from white wood. (Pine sapwood.))

You would think our Langstroth unit would be different, with everything
being factory made, but it isn't. We have boxes made in the UK, USA, and
New Zealand, and all three are slightly different. In the UK one, for
some reason of infinite wisdom, they have made the side walls thicker,
but kept the exterior dimensions the same, so it is difficult to fit 10
US Langstroth frames in once they have been used at all. The NZ ones
have the same internal size as the UK ones too, but are made with the
thinner material, so they are short on the outside dimensions, plus they
are made for bottom bee space, so we have to run a router over them to
lower the frame rest a bit.

>Worse, the standard BS frames,  in the standard National hives I feel I
>ought to demonstrate to visitors to my apiary, have straight side bars the
>whole depth and the frames are spaced only by clips on the top bars.  So u
>cannot compress a whole set as Murray does (evidently using Hoffman frames),
>or their bottoms would swing about, crushing bees everywhere!.

I would like to pretend I did not have any of these, but I do. They are
becoming rare in the BS unit nowadays, and there are none in Langstroth,
and when they turn up with the comb in any way damaged they get done
away with. We do have a good number still in the honey supers where they
cause no nuisance, but again never get rewaxed when they turn up
damaged. Some of these are at least 50 years old, and one pattern I
discussed once with Dave Cushman we reckoned to date from the 1920's,
but there are very few of these left.

However, you can still squeeze these across a bit by gentle compression
of the spacers, or the frame immediately adjacent to the spacers.
Plastic ones are of course harder to compress than the metal ones, but
it is not clear which type you have.

>   Ha, ha, ha
>I hear.  What an obsolete old country! - well, we must persuade u all to
>take up Rugby and then we can send u our best ambassadors to sort u out.
>Meanwhile, I have to suggest using dummies.

I would reckon, if they were being frank, you would get an admission
from most places, that some amateurs and sideliners will have a mix of
stuff too. Standardised is great, but it does not fit completely with
the tendency to make do with things till they are utterly unuseable
which is found in many people.

However, DN1 frames ( the type Robin has described) still sell today,
and I have heard old timers say they are the only 'proper' frames. They
are a thing that should, IMO, have been in the dustbin of history a long
time back. This is not a UK phenomenon alone. Only recently we got a
sample frame from France, and it is that type, and a consignment of
acacia comb honey from Hungary for cutting, and it too is in frames
which are not self spacing. Ditto a consignment from Spain about three
years ago. The French have even made a plastic frame which is not self
spacing (see the Thomas company catalogue, and their 'baticadre'), as
this seems to be their way there.

>
>Should such dreadful equipment be tolerated at all? Well, the reason I feel
>I should show it is that it is the stuff new beekeepers get given or buy
>cheap.  People tend to use it until they get keen enough to invest in proper
>stuff, and often only then because it is worn out.

Right on the money with that one!

>If anyone knows how to persaude beekeepers that old hives are just junk, not
>valuable historical items, please let me know.  It is the curse of
>small-scale British beekeeping.

Not only small scale (although internationally speaking we all are) I
can assure you. I am guilty of scavenging in winter myself, when some
boxes I patch up are ones which should really have gone for burning.  I
even know one guy, a professional, who salvages thin sheets of wood from
heaven knows where because it is cheap. It is half the thickness for box
walls, and he spikes two sheets together to get the right thickness.
Cannot see the economics myself, and if you look ahead to any potential
'end game', where is the 'exit with dignity' door? You will get nothing
for gear like that, all to save a very small amount of money, and feel
insulted and ruffled by what you get offered.

--
Murray McGregor

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