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Subject:
From:
Bob Harrison <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Tue, 16 Nov 2004 07:43:46 -0600
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Bob said;
> Those  beekeepers working with survivor queens see absolutely zero benefit
in small  cell.

The first time you hear the above you wonder why. The way the varroa
tolerant bee (6 way closed population system) we are using came about was
not by current accepted methods (which like Yoon failed for many ) but by
using varroa pressure  to cull survivors.

The final test of a varroa tolerant bee involves varroa pressure. Danny
Weaver tried to explain his varroa pressure method. Varroa pressure is the
only way I and others know of to speed up the selection process. Using small
cell *might* have been a shortcut but would we have ended up with a truly
varroa tolerant bee for all situations or only a varroa tolerant bee which
was so as long as downsized on 4.9mm cell size?

Keith said:
Dr. Y. S. Kim (Yoon) was using feral survivors on large cell combs and
failed but refused to use the same type feral survivors on small cell combs.
If he had his results may have been different.

In my opinion he declined to try his feral survivors on small cell for the
reasons I gave. I might have considered adding the small cell step a few
years ago ( when results were poor) but we have found success without using
the small cell downsize to 4.9 step.

The method involved the use of a six way closed instrumental insemination
breeding program over a period of six plus years . Breeder queens from feral
survivors and expensive breeder queens from the bee lab. Many breeder queens
could not handle the varroa pressure  and died. At least production 50
queens at a time were  ordered and tested from most of the queen producers
around today. These queens were left untreated  with varroa pressure added.
In some cases  all of these hives died. In others maybe only one hive
survived so the queen was given further testing and may have eventually made
the way into the closed breeding survivor program.
The beekeeper in charge of the program at times wondered if the project
would be a success. Money was tight and pots of bean soup were made.
A beekeeping family owns rights to the above bee and a patent has been taken
on the process.

The Russian bee  is still around and big improvements are being made. Our
group believs they have got  all the Russian genetics released from the bee
lab.  I believe I have got all the genetics released from the program out
back in my Russian instrumental insemination breeder queens and in my
Russian yards. The Russian bee takes a commitment as introduction is most
times  difficult and management needs modification from the norm. Also pure
Russian/Russian production queens  are as rare as an exotic animal . Hybrids
are common.

I will continue to work with the Russians as they are certainly a challenge
even for me but but my friends wonder why I do not simply switch to the
closed system bee and forget the Russians. I think the many discussions I
had with Dr. Siminuki and his belief in the success of the Russian project
has made me want to prove "Shim" was right. Will the Russian bee go the
route of the "Yugo" bee?

To be honest in my opinion the Russian bee equals the six way closed
breeding queens in the varroa department  due to the natural selection
process the Russian bee came from (100 plus years?)  which is the best way
to come up with a varroa tolerant bee. However the six way system bee trumps
the Russian bee in most other ways due to the careful selection process over
the last six years of traits which are important to beekeepers.


If small cell works for you and all the others I am very happy. My opinion
is I am afraid small cell will always be considered a passing fad and
beekeeping books 40-50 years from now will reflect same.
The focus now by myself and others will be to install varroa tolerant bees
in all hives. I hope to finnish the process this spring.

Bob

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