preacher wrote:
> Ok guys you put enough doubt in my mind so I will throw out the crock. Sure
> hope you are right. I hate to lose it.

We are not necessarily right, only prudent. It is probably safe to use
since the acid level will be high and that is a key in preventing
botulism contamination. Most problems with botulism is in non acid
canning and not using pressure cooking when it is not acidic.

I make pickles all the time and they are started in an open crock but
then they are boiled in vinegar, so it is nice and acidic. And then
canned hot and processed in a boiling water bath for 25 min.

There are concerns with vinegar (both honey and cider) when not enough
sugar is present in the beginning to yield a high acid product. If it is
below 5% there might be problems. It is equivalent to the amount of
sugar/honey you have in starting wine or mead and looking for a specific
sweetness and alcohol level.

> Does anyone know where I can buy a wine kit. That ought to work shouldn't it.
> And my question is , what is the difference between the by products in a
> sealed container and one which has a cheese cloth over it?

Cheese cloth is also used as an "air lock" but is not as good as the
ones sold specifically for that purpose, which are usually water type
locks. Things can still get into the wine/vinegar/beer/cola you are
producing and can spoil it or give results that are not what you want.

Most home made ciders and vinegars are dependent on the local yeasts and
  bacteria, so you may end up with the most wonderful tasting vinegar
ever or the foulest. (I like to gather yeasts from where my kids live to
make sourdough bread so it is a reminder of them. The best I have found
to date was from LA! Make all my bread from it. My local yeasts are so-so.)

Stores that sell brewing supplies have everything you need. There are
plenty of places on line where you can purchase them but a store owner
will also give advice.

Years ago I occasionally made vinegar.... but my intention was wine,
until I learned that you really have to keep all the stray bugs in the
air away from the fermenting brew and do have to use sterilized vessels.
Otherwise you do not know what the final product will be like.

I have also made cider vinegar on purpose, but did not like my home made
as much as good old Heinz.

Bill Truesdell
Bath, Maine

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