BEE-L Archives

Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology

BEE-L@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM

Options: Use Monospaced Font
Show Text Part by Default
Show All Mail Headers

Message: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Topic: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Author: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]

Print Reply
Subject:
From:
Bob Harrison <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Mon, 26 Nov 2007 05:09:07 -0600
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (127 lines)
Hello Paul & All,

I do not disagree with his research but have doubts about his conclusions. 
Bi Ag fights all bad publicity. Like with tobacco, refined sugar and in the 
future HFCS it will be hard to prove beyond a doubt these things cause 
problems.
I believe corn pollen from Neonicotinoid treated seed and *possibly* corn 
pollen from GMO corn to contain health hazards for honeybees.

However in areas when bees can gather pollen from other sources the problem 
(my opinion) seems to only display itself as dwindling. When forced to rely 
only on Neonicotinoid corn I have seen CCD type symptoms.

The paper you site Paul is in *my opinion* simply another attempt tp protect 
the corn interests because as you well know when CCD happened in areas of 
GMO corn last fall the first finger pointed by researchers was at GMO corn. 
I personally did not buy into GMO corn as the cause alone for CCD but not so 
sure about Neonictinoids.

>  nor do the CCD symptoms resemble those expected
> in Bt intoxicated organisms.

I agree but still not concrete proof bt corn is not problematic to bees.

 Exposure is also very low because
> the expression of endotoxins in pollen is barely detectable in
> most Bt corn hybrids and corn does not produce nectar.

He says *most* corn hybrids leaving out the fact not low in all corn 
hybrids. Also tries to throw the reader off by pointing out  that bees do 
not get nectar from corn as far as his limited knowledge of bees is! 
Entomologists many times know little about the actual workings of bees and 
most their knowledge comes from biology.

Taken from pg. 200 of American Honey plants by Frank Pellet;
CORN:
" It funishes an abundence of POLLEN in mid-summer and the bees work upon 
the tassels so freely as to give rise to a very general impression that it 
furnishes honey in abundence. At times aphids are to be found upon the stalk 
and the bees get a sweet substance from the axis of the leaves"  Frank 
Pellet

The book lists four other beekeepers claims of nectar from corn. I have my 
doubts but I have no doubt about the bees getting the corn pollen.

Elisha Gallop wrote in Bee Culture:
"One season in Iowa , my bees gathered honey from the corn.' ( Now its hard 
for most beekeepers to tell exactly the plant bees are getting nectar from 
espeically if pollen is also produced by the plant. However bees get into 
almost a frenzy at times when on a flow so I tend to believe the four 
beekeepers Pellet wrties about could have seen bees getting a liquid 
substance from the corn but may have been honeydew). reading on E. Gallop 
says" The bees gathered large quantities of pollen from the tassles, but the 
honey was gathered at the silk. The silk faily glistened with the sweet -so 
much you could taste it with your tounge, an aslo see it with your naked 
eye."

In ABJ A.H. Pering wrote of instances when corn was growing rapidly the 
stalks had split and permitted the sap to run out . At such times the bees 
gather the sap.

In conclusion frank Pellet says:
" There are so many similat reports from different localities that the fact 
that bees sometimes store surplus from corn can hardly be questioned" ( I 
still have my doubts )

Bees at times frenzy while working corn pollen but personally I think 
getting nectar or heneydew is rare (if happens at all with the new hybrids). 
Pollen gathering I see only when no other sources are around.

From American Honey Plants by John Lovell" (pg 43)
"Corn produces no nectar (1926), but is frquently visited by multitudes of 
bees for pollen". Under special conditions bees may store great quantities 
of corn pollen, filling whole frames with it" ( at times in Missouri  i have 
got stacks of boxes full of frames of corn pollen filled frames I have 
removed from the hives to open the brood nest).

J. Lovell says although plenty of reports are around of beekeepers getting 
honey from corn he has his doubts (as do I}
I suspect what those beekeepers thought was honey was in fact honeydew. 
Possibly from plant lice or a leaf hopper.

For
> these reasons, bees are not commonly found foraging in corn
> fields."

Pure BS!
>

> feeding on pollen treated with purified Cry1 endotoxins at
> doses considered well above the maximum environmental
> exposure levels encountered in the field. Results showed
> no negative effects on bee survival.

Exactly like with all research. If the bees are not dead then the bees are 
not harmed!

>" no negative effects on bee SURVIVAL"

> A two-year field study (soon to be published in the
> European bee journal Apidologie) conducted by this author
> and his graduate student represents the first attempt to
> expose functional colonies of honey bees to Bt corn pollen
> under open field conditions.

I guess we will have to wait on the real study.

With all today's beekeeping problems (as shown in the CCD team samples ) it 
would be hard to prove bt corn or neonicotinoids are sources of bee 
problems.  Especially when big ag wants to prove the opposite.  After 
reading the CCD team reports and seeing all the things found in so called 
healthy bees I really can't call most of the U.S. bee population "healthy". 
A point used by Bayer lawyers in dealings in France!

bob 


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

******************************************************
* Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at:          *
* http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm  *
******************************************************

ATOM RSS1 RSS2