Felix Delbrueck wrote concerning the last movement of Beethoven's 9th: >And the quoting from earlier movements is a device which has been >re-used so frequently since Beethoven that it sounds hackneyed, even >though it wasn't at the time. I've never had a problem with Beethoven's "quoting" from previous movements. In fact, I consider it a feature of the 4th movement which adds to the movement's impact, almost making the movement a symphony in itself. Maybe it's because I'm not in a good mood, but I'm sick of this bashing of Beethoven's 9th symphony and other well-known works. It was bashed extensively about two weeks ago, and we still haven't moved on. My comments are not directed at Felix who carefully notes his "problems" with a piece and who I sincerely believe wants to strongly enjoy and appreciate every work he listens to (and that he strives to do just that). My comments apply generally to the overall tendency on the list to sometimes prefer talking badly of a work or composer instead of posting about works and composers who are greatly appreciated. I'm convinced that an "objective observer" of this list would conclude that a significant percentage of list members don't really like classical music at all. Just for the record, I consider Beethoven's 9th symphony the most masterful symphony of any time period and the 4th movement the crowning conclusion of this greatest symphony. Don Satz [log in to unmask]