Growth for breastfeeding babies(inparticular premmies) was a topic of concer
at the reason breast feeding workshop I attend.The only growth charts we
have to go on are those based on bottle feeding(formula) feed babies and
this is extremely difficult to base the expected growth of the current crop
of VLBW babies and 23wk plus babies that are now appearing in NICUs.When
breast fed they take longer then those that are formula feed to regain and
exceed their birth weights and to grow.The question asked by all my
colleagues was why hasn't someone come up with growth charts for these
breastfeeding bubs now that breastfeeding is being encouraged.
I've found a chart on the web for Chinese babies adopted by Americans but
can't come up with anything for anyother national.Does anyone know if such a
chart is in the pipeline
They keep telling us that these babies will have caught up with their peers
by two years of age but a breastfeeding mum wantsa to know about the here
and now not two years down the track
Anne RN RM BNS
Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
To: Recipients of LACTNET digests <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 19 May, 1999 8:07
Subject: LACTNET Digest - 18 May 1999 - Special issue (#1999-242)
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Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 22:20:03 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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Gee, I wonder what hospital has "cribs with sides" that can be pulled level
with a moms bed. At the many hospitals that I've been in, newborns are not in
"cribs" they are in bassinets that look like plastic dresser drawers on
wheels. Even the cribs in the pediatric unit are huge and could not be placed
level with an adult patient bed.
Frequently, in our hospital, moms who have had normal vaginal
deliveries usually do have their babies in bed with them at night, regardless
of how the baby is fed. I have been going in at 6 am to do rounds with night
staff and 3 out of 4 babies that I see are right there in bed with mom. With
the side rails up, it's quite safe.
Mary Kay Smith, CLE, IBCLC
Romeoville, IL
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Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 22:25:57 EDT
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Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 18 May 1999 - Special issue (#1999-239)
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Can you please take [log in to unmask] off your e-mail list. Thank you for
your information & support.
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Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 22:47:52 EDT
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<[log in to unmask]>
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Several recent posts have mentioned pushing cribs, with one siderail removed,
up against mom's bed, as a way of co-sleeping without co-bedding.
I would like to recommend this to several moms I know who are ambivalent
about whether or not to sleep with their babies.
However, I can't picture how they are attached to keep the crib from rolling
or slipping away from the bed, leaving a steep drop for baby :(.
Do people have technical suggestions for this? -- I'm talking about home,
not hospital. Or are there beds/cribs specifically made to do this safely
that people can recommend (off list if people feel it gets too close to
advertising, though I think its probably in the category of 'discussion of
professional products').
Thanks for any recommendations.
Elisheva Urbas
lay bf nudnick in NYC
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Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 23:03:18 EDT
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Dear Folks:
Dr. Peter Hartmann spoke at the 1998 International Lactation
Conference in Orlando, Florida about fat synthesis in milk, and milk
synthesis and about his research in Australia, where he gets funding to
study breasts and human milk. That is where I heard him speak about finding
greater amounts of fat in the first milk of some women, and his thought was
that it was left over from the previous feed.
Which, when you think about it, makes sense. Baby suckles, Mom has a
number of let-downs during the feed which increase fat content. Baby stops
when full. So where does the fat in the milk inside the breast go? Disappear?
Crawl back up to the myeopeithelium and get in line again? Or hang around
waiting for the next time of release? Which can be in the first milk at the
next time baby suckles.
We'll never know it all..and that is a blessing. As long as we can
keep the mothers and babies together, we don't need to know much more.
Warmly, Nikki Lee
(who just finished watching a TV show about Joan of Arc. She was a powerful
woman, so of course she couldn't be allowed to live. 9 million women were
said to have been slaughtered during the Middle Ages: for being healers, for
being eccentric, for being individuals, for being. Have we come so far since
then? )
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Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 23:07:56 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Andrea Eastman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: CNN Transcript on the Bronx case
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Hi,
You can read the transcript from the CNN show. You can read it online
at:
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/9905/18/bp.00.html
or
<a href="http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/9905/18/bp.00.html">The Trial of
Tabitha Walrond, Charged with Starving her Infant to Death</a>
I heard a bit of it. Liz Baldwin did an outstanding job - she was on
the telephone being asked for her opinions.
Sincerely,
Andrea
--
Andrea Eastman, MA, CCE, IBCLC
Granville, Ohio -- mailto:[log in to unmask]
Gentle Birth Alternatives
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/8978
http://www.breastfeeding.com/andrea_eastman.html
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Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 23:55:08 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Rhonda Feder/Gregory Capps <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: "appropriate discretion"
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I can chime in that allowing breastfeeding "with the appropriate discretion"
is about as vague a legal standard as I could think of. Arguably the bill
means if a customer or shop keeper or anyone else feels a woman is nursing
without "appropriate discretion," she may be asked to leave. That is the
most plausible reading of the bill. Who determines what "appropriate
discretion" is? A judge? A jury? Another customer? Anyone who witnesses
the nursing couple?
The language of the bill is ridiculous -- if it is ever used against a
woman, I would hope the legislature would then take the opportunity to
delete the reference to "appropriate discretion." The stuff about giving
out breastfeeding information to all pregnant woman sounds very positive --
I guess they had to appease some senators by including the discretion
clause.
Rhonda Feder
Elkins Park, PA
lawyer, lay counselor in training
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 09:20:20 +1000
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From: Querida David <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Grainy milk
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The grains can really only be one of two things - a residue from her milk -
likely to be fat separated during freezing and no problem for baby - or some
type of plastic residue from the bag. Solution is to change freezing
containers (not just feeding containers) and freeze some milk in, say ice
cube trays, then put them into a glass or regular plastic bottle to feed -
not a nurser bag. If there is still residue - it's likely to be fat - no
problem. If not - contact the manufacturers of the freezer bags and let them
know that the product seems to be faulty.
warmly,
Querida
Querida David IBCLC
Alyangula. NT. Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wednesday, 19 May 1999 6:27
Subject: Re: Grainy milk
>Dear Wise One,
>Last week I posted a question about a grainy residue that was left in a
>plastic nurser bag after the feed (frozen EBM). The only response I
received
>was a possiblility of it being fat stuck to the sides of the bag. The mom
>called back today and said it happened again and that it also feels like
>sand. I told her I would repost to see if anyone else has any ideas. Would
>fat feel grainy? Could it be similar to what happens to ice cream after it
>has been in the freezer too long? Any suggestions would be helpful as she
is
>thinking about having it analyzed and is concerned about feeding it to her
>baby.
>Thanks,
>Linda Goldberg, RN, CCE, aspiring LC
>Orlando, FL
>
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 00:54:28 EDT
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Dear Linda
When milk products are frozen and then thawed, they sometimes appear
grainy...the milk is fine.
Karen Taylor RN,IBCLC
Albuquerque,NM
send to [log in to unmask]
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Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 21:11:39 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: alchohol in BM
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>
>Also, we advise women that per alchoholic drink, to wait 2 hours before
>nursing.
Why? Is there any evidence this single drink could harm the baby?
What if the baby wants feeding before the 2 hours are up? Would having a
drink be more harmful than giving the bottle of formula instead?
Sorry - I just think it is hard enough for women to breastfeed, without
making them worried or constrained about this, (unless there is good
evidence it is harmful, of course).
However, I have to say that in the UK we are more laid back about alcohol
in all sorts of circumstances....not saying this is good or bad, just
that's the way it is. Our official advice from the Royal College of Obs and
Gynaes and the Royal College of Midwives is that it's fine to drink in
pregnancy - I think the advice is something like one or two drinks at a
time, a few times a week, not sure so don't quote me !
I know when I was writing some pregnancy stuff for some American corporate
clients they nearly went into orbit when I wrote what that advice was. They
changed it to nuttin', not ever, not nohow....
But the RCOG and the RCM argue their advice is research-based.
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 14:56:14 +0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Joy Anderson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: prolactin levels, alchohol in BM
Comments: cc: John Vanek <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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>I've been speaking with a mom who had a reduction. She is having great
>success with her milk supply while taking Domperidone, (which she
>ordered from Mexico). She had a curious question which I was unable to
>answer. Since we know that prolactin levels decrease after so many weeks
>post-partum, what is it that keeps the milk supply up?
Autocrine control - the rate of synthesis of breastmilk is directly related
to the degree of breast emptiness (works via an inhibitor peptide in the
milk itself). See Peter Hartmann's papers or search the Lactnet archives
for lots of posts about this. I suspect the Domperidone is really just
useful to 'kick start' the supply, and it would need good drainage to
maintain it.
>
>Also, we advise women that per alchoholic drink, to wait 2 hours before
>nursing. Also, that they don't have to "pump and dump" since the
>alchohol dissipates. If mom was to pump and wait a sprcified amount of
>time before using that milk, would it be safe to use for the baby?
I would guess that the alcohol would be much slower to 'dissipate' from the
EBM (but really don't know!), as the reason the milk in the breast loses
the alcohol is because it moves back into the bloodsteam - there is a
dynamic equilibrium between blood and milk, with the blood alcohol level
equalling the milk alcohol level at any one point in time. As it is a
fat-soluble compound it moves very quickly across membranes.
******************************************************************
Joy Anderson B.Sc. Dip.Ed. Grad.Dip.Med.Tech. IBCLC
Nursing Mothers' Association of Australia Breastfeeding Counsellor
Perth, Western Australia. mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 15:08:37 +0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Joy Anderson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Grainy milk
Comments: cc: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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>Last week I posted a question about a grainy residue that was left in a
>plastic nurser bag after the feed (frozen EBM). The only response I received
>was a possiblility of it being fat stuck to the sides of the bag. The mom
>called back today and said it happened again and that it also feels like
>sand.
Sounds like they might be 'corpora amylaceae' ('milk bodies')?? Maureen
Minchin talks about this in her book 'Breastfeeding Matters' in the section
about tip blockages (as they seem to cause these in some mothers) (p 162 of
the latest edition). To quote:
'...concretions of casein and calcium found in the milk of dairy animals.
And found more frequently in milk from traumatised or mastitic udders.'
******************************************************************
Joy Anderson B.Sc. Dip.Ed. Grad.Dip.Med.Tech. IBCLC
Nursing Mothers' Association of Australia Breastfeeding Counsellor
Perth, Western Australia. mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 14:42:04 +0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Joy Anderson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: foremilk and hindmilk
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Nikki Lee wrote:
> Wonderful Dr. Peter Hartmann's work is changing the fore/hind milk
>notion some. He has discovered ladies who have a higher fat content in the
>first milk that comes because it is left over from the feed before.
I totally agree with what Nikki wrote about keeping it simple for mothers.
Just thought it might help here to re-post a message I sent to Lactnet in
Dec 1997 about this topic. It was in response to another post that appears
below with the > marks alongside.
> It is my understanding that as the baby nurses, the foremilk comes first,
>and then becomes a mix of fore and hind, and then becomes just the hind
>milk. That is why we want a baby to finish one side before going to the
>other, and why we encourage moms with oversupply to feed just on one
>side at a feeding (as well as to help reduce the supply over time).
>
>So if a baby is stopping and starting, over the period of an hour, say, on
>just one side, doesn't he keep getting just foremilk? Or does he keep
>getting a blend? Does it depend on the length of the breaks he takes? Like
>with every three to four minutes, he might be getting the continuum over an
>hour; but with every 20 minutes, he keeps getting new supplies of skim or
>skim and whole without ever getting to the cream?
*****The fat content of the milk available at any one point in time is
dependent on the degree of emptiness of the breast, regardless of *when* in
the feed it is.*****
So when a baby stops feeding, the breast keeps on making milk (at a rate
according to the degree of breast emptiness - the emptier it is, the faster
it synthesises new stuff), so the fat concentration begins to fall
gradually as the breast fills up again. Babies never totally 'empty'
breasts, they stop when they have had enough milk and/or sucking. So the
residual milk (and hence the fat content) left after a baby comes off will
vary greatly from time to time and mother to mother. Also contributing to
this variation is the differing storage capacities in different mothers and
individual breasts on each mother.
There are heaps of posts in the archives about all this. Or even better,
get hold of Peter Hartmann's papers for an explanation of the control of
milk synthesis. He has shown that it is possible in the one mother (one
breast actually) to have the 'foremilk' of one feed (late in the day) with
a higher fat content than the 'hindmilk' of another feed (early morning
after a long sleep). He believes we should stop talking about 'foremilk'
and 'hindmilk' altogether as it is often meaningless.
Nature is so clever - the system is fantastically designed. Problems only
arise when *we* muck up the system in some way.
(N.B. Peter Hartmann and his PhD students at the University of Western
Australia have published in several journals, including JHL (Daly SEJ &
Hartmann PE, 1995, Infant Demand and Milk Supply. Part 1: Infant Demand and
Milk Production in Lactating Women, J Hum Lact 11(1): 21-26 and Daly SEJ &
Hartmann PE, 1995, Infant Demand and Milk Supply. Part 2: The Short-Term
Control of Milk Synthesis in Lactating Women, J Hum Lact 11(1): 27-37) and
in Experimental Physiology.)
******************************************************************
Joy Anderson B.Sc. Dip.Ed. Grad.Dip.Med.Tech. IBCLC
Nursing Mothers' Association of Australia Breastfeeding Counsellor
Perth, Western Australia. mailto:[log in to unmask]
******************************************************************
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 00:49:22 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Melinda Hoskins, MS, RN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Crib sidecars
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Elishiva-- in response to your question, you might want to see the
website for Arms Reach, which features articles by some of our favorite
"like to like" people, Sears, McKenna, etc,
http://www.armsreach.com/
I came across an ad which listed their url while reviewing the current
issue of "Fit Pregnancy" magazine.
Melinda Hoskins, MS, RN, LC2B
>
> Do people have technical suggestions for this? -- I'm talking about home,
> not hospital. Or are there beds/cribs specifically made to do this safely
> that people can recommend (off list if people feel it gets too close to
> advertising, though I think its probably in the category of 'discussion of
> professional products').
>
> Thanks for any recommendations.
>
> Elisheva Urbas
> lay bf nudnick in NYC
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 18:41:26 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: MARY BLACK <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Fat content of Breastmilk
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Dear all
Follows a note from Peter Hartman whcih should clarify issues in the =
current debate
...............................
Our observatiions show that occassionally the fat content on the milk will
be higher just before a breastfeed than just after the feed. We argue =
that
this is due incomplete mixing of the high fat milk left in the breast =
after
the breastfeed with the low fat milk that drains towards the nipple from
that breastfeed up to the next breastfeed.
If I recall correctly, the main point that I was making in Orlando was =
that
the fat content of fore milk can change over the course of the day. That
is, if a mother has a high storage capacity, and the baby has an extended
period without feeding during the 24h period, eg over night. In this
situation the fore milk in the morning will have a very low fat content =
and
because the baby does not remove all the available milk at the morning
feeds, the fat content of the hind milk will also be quite low compared to
later in the day when most of the available milk is removed by the end of
each breastfeed. In these mothers it is quite common for the fat content
of fore milk in the evening to be higher than the fat content of hind =
milk
at morning feeds. (see Daly, S.E.J.; Di Rosso, A; Owens, R.A. and
Hartmann, P.E.
Degree of breast emptying explains changes in the fat content, but not
fatty acid composition, of human milk. Experimental Physiology 78:
741-755 (1993); Hartmann, P.E.; Morgan, S.E.G. and Arthur, P.A Milk =
letdown
and the concentration of fat in breast milk. In "Human Lactation 2:
Maternal-Environmental Factors", Ed. Hamosh, M. and Goldman, A.S. (Plenum
Publishing Corp.: NY) 275-281 (1986) and also see Atwood, C.S. and
Hartmann, P.E. Collection of fore- and hind-milk from the sow. Journal =
of
Dairy Research 59: 287-298 (1992)).
This may be of assistance to the discussion.
Regards
Peter
Professor Peter E. Hartmann
Head of Department of Biochemistry
The University of Western Australia
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 06:24:17 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: botulism
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I was told something at a conference yesterday that surprised me and I was
hoping to get some input on this.
I was asked why I don't recommend soap on the breasts before every feeding
(no I'm not asking for input on this, I know about sore nipples) The reason
the question was asked was because of an outbreak of infant botulism!
Apparently there was an outbreak along the Route 1 corredor in NJ. The
supposed only thing these babies had in common was that they were all
breastfed and non of their mothers used soap on their nipples! I did ask
what else they may have had in common since thousands of mothers are
instructed not to use soap!
First - has anyone actually read about this situation?
Second - wouldn't the antimicrobials on the breast help if the mother somehow
came in contact with botulism spores?
Dori
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 07:30:31 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Melissa V. Kirsch" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: botulism
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The Phila. Inquirer did an article on this in the last few months and
noted that only breastfed babies seem to get it. There was no mention of
soap...the doctors didn't know what caused it.
I wonder if its possible that ABM-fed babies get the same thing and die
of "SIDS" while the breastfed babies are healthier and end up being
diagnosed for it. Does anyone know if autopsies on SIDS babies check for
infant botulism?
Melissa Kirsch
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 07:27:39 -0400
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: preemie growth rates in Sweden
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Dear Carol, they are coming at it from a different angle.
This is the country that gives mothers liberal paid time off after
childbirth.
They value breastfeeding.
They value babies and children.
The bottom line (and getting baby out of hospital ASAP) is not driving
their care.
Gives it a whole different spin. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 07:41:49 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: CNN Transcript on the Bronx case
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Read the transcript. Very interesting. Does anyone from NYC area have the
latest on this trial? Thanks, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 07:47:28 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: foremilk and hindmilk
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Dear Friends:
Joy's post is detailed and very clear. Thank you, Joy. Dr.
Hartmann's work is fabulous. He spoke in Florida of discovering that fat
content in milk is not consistent from one lactation to the next, of how the
rate of synthesis changes during the feed. He found one woman with a 800 cc
storage capacity in one breast, and a 1500 cc storage capacity in the other.
He said that storage capacity relates to interbout interval, and that when
the breast is full, milk fat is low; as the breast is emptied, fat increases.
I wonder about the fats in the milk of women that breastfeed 4 times
an hour, like the !Kung. Their breasts must not get so full, right? Are the
spreads in fat concentration of the milk the scientists have studied an
artifact of interbout intervals? Will we ever know? Warmly, Nikki Lee
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 07:57:55 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
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Dear Friends:
Alcohol goes through milk. Babies may not like the taste, and feed
less for the feed after the mom has the drink (which is what the Menella
study showed....except for the one baby out of the 12 sampled who drank more
than baseline!) I wish Dr. Menella had studied the sample for longer than
one feed after the mom had the alcohol.
Another study showed a tiny (1%) difference in motor skills between
babies whose mothers had one drink per day average as opposed to mothers who
had less than one drink per day. So don't drink every day.
If she has a drink, she doesn't have to pump and dump. The risks of
breastmilk substitutes are huge and thoroughly documented compared to a
suckling bout with a trace of alcohol in it. If we scare moms, telling them
things like pump and dump for two hours for every drink that they have (which
is not evidence based advice) we drive them to formula. Because they won't
give up their occaisonal drink. We aren't talking about alcoholics, we are
talking about you and me, who may have a beer or a glass of wine now and
then. For heaven's sake, let's be reasonable. Warmly, Nikki Lee
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 07:56:43 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Nice, Frank" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Alcohol and Breastfeeding
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It is my understanding that one drink of alcohol should not harm the nursling
(see below though).
Also, it is my understanding that the alcohol gets into the breast milk rapidly.
It is also my understanding that the consumption of alcohol may have an
immediate effect on the odor of breast milk and thus the feeding behavior of the
infant and the amount of milk ingested by the infant.
I guess three understandings is enough for one posting.
Frank J. Nice, DPA, CPHP
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 07:13:57 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: growth charts
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>The only growth charts we
h>ave to go on are those based on bottle feeding(formula) feed babies
If you are using the WHO/CDC/Ross Labs growth charts, these are NOT, repeat
NOT, based only on formula-fed babies. Some of the babies were breastfed,
some mixed fed, most were started on solids at 3 weeks or even 2 weeks of
age. Search the archives for long discussions about growth and growth charts.
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 07:21:41 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Hartmann's work
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>Which, when you think about it, makes sense. Baby suckles, Mom has a
>number of let-downs during the feed which increase fat content. Baby stops
>when full. So where does the fat in the milk inside the breast go? Disappear?
> Crawl back up to the myeopeithelium and get in line again? Or hang around
>waiting for the next time of release? Which can be in the first milk at the
>next time baby suckles.
My understanding is that the fat is difficult to dislodge, and doesn't come
off until all the lower-fat milk has been removed from the breast. If the
baby continues to suckle, then the fat dislodges and comes out, making the
milk higher-fat. If the baby stops early, then the breast begins re-filling
with lower fat milk and the next time the baby comes to nurse, he has to
remove the low-fat milk again before he can get to the higher fat milk.
I think the balloon analogy I used before went something like this. Imagine
a sticky wall -- cover it with pink balloons (high fat), then attach yellow
balloons over top of the pink balloons. When the baby comes, he has to
remove all the yellow balloons before he can have a pink balloon. If he
works steadily, he can take off all the yellows and then get some pinks.
Sometimes he stops before the yellow balloons are all gone, or even he gets
all the yellows and only a few pinks before he falls asleep. While he is
sleeping, his mother comes in and puts up more yellow balloons on top of the
pink ones. When the baby wakes up again, he has to start all over taking
down yellow balloons before he can get to the pink ones. If he isn't
allowed to work very long at taking down the yellow ones, then he *never*
gets to the pink ones.
Another analogy is to soak a sponge in a mixture of oil and water. Then
start to slowly squeeze the sponge, and the water comes out first. You can
only get the oil out if you keep squeezing once all the water is out. If
you put the sponge back in water too soon, then you have to squeeze all the
water out again before you can get any oil out.
So how do babies that nurse 4 times an hour get the fat they need? The more
frequent the nursing, the higher the fat content of all the milk.
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 07:26:51 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: fat content
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Peter Hartmann's comments confirm what I was saying -- if the "yellow
balloon gnomes" have all night to put up yellow balloons, then the baby
won't be able to remove them all even if he nurses a long time in the
morning. But if he nurses often during the day, then the yellow balloon
gnomes don't have time to replace all the yellows between feeds, so by the
end of the day, the wall has only a few yellows covering the pinks, and the
baby very quickly gets to the pink balloons.
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 09:02:22 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: "dreamworld" - NOT!
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"Their "dreamworld" consists of epidurals with the first contraction..."
That's no joke! I got out of hospital nsg. before epidurals were common for
childbirth (only docors'wives and other occasional bigwigs got them), so see
mostly the after-effects in the poor little babies that can't get it
together to figure out how to suck. But I saw the most appalling thing on TV
last week: some kind of obscure TV station (maybe "Discovery"?)has a show
that consists of the pregnancy and birth stories of different couples - I
was really shocked at how what I would think of as highly medicalized births
were shown as normal, over and over again. Anyway, the thing that *really*
kicked me in the teeth in this episode I caught was that the woman was in
the hospital "with her epidural already in place" at 2-3 cm. dilated!
"nurses to do most of the care of babies in hospital, a nursery to send baby
off to at night and baby nurses to do night feeds!"
Doesn't it make you wonder when nurses became transformed from medically-
educated people, there to safeguard your & the baby's health and provide
support and instruction when needed, into servants about on the level of a
good level-headed babysitter? It doesn't take a nurse to do those things!
Cathy Bargar, RN, IBCLC Ithaca NY
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 09:12:23 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: BF during pregnancy
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Barb wrote:
<< Anyone have any articles on breastfeeding during pregnancy. >>
LLLI has a lot of information on this very subject! Check the BF Answer Book
and Mothering Your Nursing Toddler, and two little booklets - the new edition
of Nursing Two, Is It For You? and Nursing Through Pregnancy and Beyond.
I would really recommend that anybody looking for a book on a particular bf
subject should check out the LLL resources. They have small booklets with
references as well as professional materials. To see everything in the LLLI
catalog click on
<A HREF="http://www.lalecheleague.org/LLLICatMain96.html">LLLI Catalogue, 1999
</A>
Cynthia D. Payne, LLLL
LLL of Berkshire County MA
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 06:13:16 -0600
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From: Jones Family <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Engorgement again--one breast or two
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Thanks for those who have replied to my engorgement question. Are there
any studies comparing cold only with cold between and heat before
feeding or pumping or are our recommendations based on experience and
general information on edema?
Although "finishing the first breast" may help prevent engorgement and
provide many other benefits, should a mother who is severely engorged be
advised to offer both breasts to provide relief and to keep the milk
flowing?
I'm still way behind on posts. Please reply privately as well as to the
list. TIA
Bonnie Jones, RN, ICCE, IBCLC from the sunny S.W. USA
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 06:16:29 PDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Fookkong Fok <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Breastfeeding in public in Singapore
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Dear Lactnetters,
I just want to share what just happened in Singapore in the last week or so,
culminating in today's t.v. and newspaper coverage of the above issue" Is
breastfeeding in public obscene?" This was raised during one of the group's
networking "Asiaparents'list discussion, when one of the members shared how
a mother was asked to breastfeed her baby in the washroom, instead of doing
it at the restaurant. The tone of voice from the employee of the cafe was
enough to infuriate the nursing mother and caused her to leave. As a result
of this report, what was decided was to stage a "nurse-in" at that
particular cafe, in order to voice a protest- that mothers have the right to
breastfeed their babies in public. There was enough media coverage- with
the local press turning up and interviewing the mothers and the local tv.
covering it in the current affairs segment. We hope that it will raise
public awareness to this issue of breastfeeding and social norms. In
Singapore, there are no laws against breastfeeding. Doris Fok, IBCLC in
private practice in Singapore (65)2513116
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 09:14:26 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: foremilk/hindmilk and times
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"I suspect that *any* working mother whose work is physical rather than
mental is likely to fall into a work pattern like mine. She gets more
done and her workday flows better."
The big "IF" in what you say, Diane, is IF the mother is in proximity to the
baby! I've never been able to understand the timing recommendations to women
who have their babies near them - as, in our country at least, most have the
opportunity to do for the first weeks at the least. Seems to me one of the
truly obvious and self-evident facts of new-parenting is that life goes so
much better for *everyone* if you just nurse whenever the baby wants to, for
as long as the baby wants to or as long as the mother is able to, whichever
comes first. But I've learned that this is a truly radical notion for most
people.
Again, I think it's a case of the "medical professionals" being determined
to keep some control and "authority" over the most minute details of women's
lives - even over our biology! I guess I was just born and raised naturally
resistant to this type of authority - have never been able to really *get*
why some "expert" I've never seen should tell me how often or how long I
"should" nurse my baby.
Cathy B.
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 09:20:57 -0400
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From: Cindy Curtis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Singapore
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> I have just had an amazing day. It all started with a client of mine who
had
> twins eight weeks ago. She called me last week to say that she had been
> breastfeeding her twins in a popular coffee shop on Orchard Road - the
main
> shopping street of Singapore. This coffee shop is in a shopping mall that
is
> predominately selling mother & bby products. After she had fed the first
> twin - very discreetly with a large shirt and a muslin covering herself,
the
> woman manager came over to her and told her that breastfeeding in
Singapore
> was illegal since it was considered obscene. As this was her first time
> breastfeeding in public, it did nothing to boost her confidence.
>
> I invited a few colleagues - mostly Singaporean mums - who were all long
> term breastfeeders, the La Leche League and members of the Singapore
> Breastfeeding Mothers Support Group to join me today at the coffee shop
with
> our toddlers & babies. The press were informed (not by me!) and they
turned
> out in droves. We had two magazines and 4 newspapers represented and a
> reporter from a TV show called Talking Point that is on the News Channel
> here in Singapore (Channel News Asia). The mum herself was interviewed, as
> were many members of the breastfeeeding groups, and myself (while feeding
my
> 2 year old saughter Erinn). The General Manager of the coffee shop was
also
> interviewed and he formally apologised to my friend, explaining that the
> manager concerned had been reprimanded and he saw this as an educational
> opportunity where he and his staff could become more aware of the need for
> consideration and respect of breastfeeding mothers. We hd confirmed with
the
> police that there was no law against breastfeeding (don't laugh, remember
> where I live!) although individual stores had the right to have their own
> policy. (Clarks shoes here by the way have a sign on their wall stating
that
> mothers may NOT breastfeed their babies in the store and they actively
tell
> mothers this, even those not intending to breastfeed, sometimes those who
> don't even breastfeed! Needless to say, I don't buy Clarks shoes!)
>
> The first article came out in one of the daily newspapers this afternoon,
a
> little sensationalist but very positive. The tv program will be aired
> tonight and the other papers will be publishing tomorrow morning. The
> magazines will be publishing for next monhs issue.
>
> All in all, a very productive day. Managed to significantly raise the
> profile fo breastfeeding for a few days in a country where breastfeeding
is
> not high profile. Everyone involved, including the store, was wonderful.
> Except for one very stroppy reporter (woman) who wanted us to all sit in a
> line and breastfeed at the same time. She said she had thought we woud all
> be carrying banners or placades!!! and kept asking what we were trying to
> achieve and what was our point. When she asked me why I thought women
didn't
> breastfeed here very much, I replied that the initial support in the
> hospitals was often not very good (no rooming in, pacifiers and bottled
> water as well as formula frequently given to babies whose mothers have
said
> they want to breastfeed, negative comments like "your nipples are very
small
> for breastfeeding" or "he's feeding a lot - I don't think your milk is
very
> good quality" or to one mum who had had a caesarean three hours earlier
and
> had expressed some colostrum for her twins "there's not a lot there, I
don't
> think you'll be able to breastfeed these babies") the reporter started
> arguing with me and telling me that the hospitals were wonderfully
> supportive. Shje then announced that she was a "failed breastfeeder" - her
> words, not mine. Anyway, she was the only problem.
>
> I'm so glad I did this! Still floating after a great day.
>
> Nikki Macfarlane
> Childbirth Educator & Doula
> Singapore
>
>
Cindy Curtis,RN,IBCLC
mailto:[log in to unmask]
http://www.erols.com/cindyrn
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 09:43:49 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Paul & Kathy Koch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: "dreamworld" - NOT!
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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> But I saw the most appalling thing on TV
>last week: some kind of obscure TV station (maybe "Discovery"?)has a show
>that consists of the pregnancy and birth stories of different couples - I
>was really shocked at how what I would think of as highly
>medicalized births
>were shown as normal, over and over again. Anyway, the thing that *really*
>kicked me in the teeth in this episode I caught was that the woman was in
>the hospital "with her epidural already in place" at 2-3 cm. dilated!
This show is called "A Baby Story" (or something along those lines) and I
think it is on Lifetime. I've only seen it 4-5 times and it does appear to
be heavily slanted towards interventions. I saw one woman in full makeup,
with perfectly coifed hair, having a scheduled C-section. I didn't think
makeup would be allowed during surgery. Don't you need to see lip and skin
tone?
But, I did see a midwife-attended waterbirth at home where breastfeeding was
talked about as normal. Another episode showed the parents interviewing
pediatricians. They interviewed Jay Gordon (who speaks often at LLL
conferences). They asked how long they should breastfeed and without pause
he said "Two years."
Kathy, in soggy Maryland...no rain but the humidity has swelled my front
door so badly I can't close it!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kathy Koch, BSEd, IBCLC
Great Mills, MD
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 08:58:31 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Joanne McCrory <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Pampers Parenting
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Laurie referenced the Pampers Parenting Institute. I would like to point
out that Pampers basis the information in their program and their Childbirth
Forum Program on the work of Berry Brazelton, most notably his 1992
Touchpoints Book. He is quite out of date and out of touch in many
regards, including lactation information and comforting and soothing. As a
CBE, I have been in touch with the Pampers Parenting Institute and am in the
process of documenting all their misinformation, including current and
correct citations so that they can make corrections.
While Brazelton is a big name, he has always been off the mark in some key
ways about breastfeeding and soothing. The representative I spoke with
seemed very receptive to my concerns, especially since I said I could
reference my information. I will keep you posted.
Joanne
MA candidate, Child Development
Erikson Institute, Chicago
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 10:04:56 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: vit d
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Pat:
latest issue of newletter from infact hasa GREAT article on vit d... try
their web site to see if it is there.
Patricia
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 09:10:53 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Dan & Liz Spannraft <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: alcohol
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At the risk of sounding ultra conservative, since when is alcohol
nutritionally neccessary! Just like smoking and unneeded drugs or bad
health habits its an optional activity. If a mother has to have a drink,
it should set off a mental red flag to health professinals. We recently
counseled a client who called to ask about having a drink on mothers day.
During the discussion the LC learned she planned to drink a whole bottle of
Champagne to celebrate, while nursing a 2 week old, because " I didn't
drink in pregnancy so now I can". Hardly the same as one beer or a glass of
wine of wine. How much is too much? Dr. Ludington -Hoe says if you want to
kill brain cells, drink alcohol.
Liz Spannraft IBCLC
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 10:22:18 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: altar of ignorance
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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A few days ago a mom of one of my patients called me from a hospital were I
do not have privileges. She was being admitted for gallbladder surgery. Her
baby is 4 months old and breastfeeding well.
Mom had questions about breastfeeding with pain meds and post anesthesia. I
told her as soon as she felt able post op it was OK to breastfed and gave
Ruth Lawrence's book as a reference for her doc.
Two days later mom told me her doc said "you will not breastfed for ten
hours" Mom had given him my message.
Breastfeeding was to be sacrificed at the altar of ignorance, first church
of arrogance (unreformed).
However mom canceled the service as dad brought her the baby post op and she
breastfed. :-)
-Rob
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 10:33:10 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: James McKenna
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Please send James McKenna's address and phone to me privately. Thanks! K
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 15:32:32 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Toby Gish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: We think everyone knows about breastfeeding?
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Dear Lactnetters - Must share an amusing incident. A sweet young thing
called last night and wanted a few brochures on breastfeeding. One of my
suggestions were to look in the local bookstore for books on the subject.
"Oh", she said, incredulously,"There are books about breastfeeding???????"
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm - Maybe we just think everyone is as obsessed with
breastfeeding as we are. Warmly Toby (In beautiful Haifa)
Toby Gish RN, BA, IBCLC, LLLL
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 15:36:00 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: WHO code violations at baby clinics
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Hi All,
I have passed the relevent details on to Baby Milk Action, but I wanted
to share it with you so that as many people are possible are aware.
A mother spoke to me today about what happened at her NHS baby clinic
last Wednesday. She went there for a routine baby check and 3mo
vaccination and at the door, was greated by a rep from Farley's (major
ABM manufacturers in UK) who asked her what brand of formula she used.
She told her she was breastfeeding, and gave the rep her filthiest look,
whereupon, the rep turned to the next mother behind her and asked the
same question. Upon finding a bottlefeeding mother, she asked her to
take part in a "survey" on "follow-up milk" and presented her with two
cans - one of their old formulation and one of the "new" formulation.
The mother said her baby was only 9wo ("follow-up" milk is advertised
for babies of 6mo and above), but the rep replied "it'll be all right"
and apparently was not contradicted by the health visitor who was there
as well.
What the h$$*!& are formula reps doing in an NHS baby clinic, apparently
being approved of by health visitors?
Some weeks ago, at a mother and baby group, run by health visitors in
this area, another rep, this time from SMA Nutrition (another big ABM
manufacturer in UK) gave a presentation on introducing solids
("Weaning") and afterwards, handed out samples of Follow-on milk. Once
again, the comment was made, supported by the health visitor, that it
would be "OK" to use the samples on babies ranging from 8wo.
My blood is boiling! I still haven't calmed down from the Christian
conference issue :-( With health visitors colluding with the ABM
manufacturers, we haven't got a hope in this country :-(
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/index.html
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 15:36:12 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Foremilk/hindmilk
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Hi All,
>Also baby may want "3" sides at some feedings, and
>the breast is primarily a productive gland, not a storage gland, though
>some milk will accumulate in the ducts between feedings, milk is made at
>the time of feeding, the baby being the stimulus.
Sorry to blow my own trumpet here, but I caused great hilarity the other
day when I asked a mother if she waited until her salivary glands had
saved up enough saliva before eating! She got the point :-)
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/index.html
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 09:57:29 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Joanne McCrory <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: non-nutritive sucking
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I am in need of a reference for the value of flutter nursing or
"non-nutritive sucking". I would like to support the idea that this type of
sucking stimulates prolactin levels which in turn maintains and stimulates
milk supply. Child development and medical literature often discount the
value of this type of sucking which, because it is a natural and normal part
of nursing, must be important. But I need a reference to back it up for my
current purposes. I searched the archives but found nothing I could use.
Thanks, Joanne
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 10:01:35 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Theresa Chmiel <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: temporary farewell
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I am moving and will be computer-less for about a month so I must bid =
you all farewell, at least temporarily. This list is an invaluable =
resource and I look forward to getting back in the groove when we get =
settled in our new home. Keep up the great work you all do!
Theresa Chmiel, CLC, ICCE
sadly leaving Pensacola, anxiously awaiting life in Las Vegas! Whew, =
that's 2,000 miles away and NO BEACH :-(=20
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 08:24:50 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kirsten Jones <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: James McKenna's email?
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All,
I have a few specific questions regarding James McKenna's research, and
would love his email address to contact him directly. Can someone provide
me with this?
Thanks,
Kirsten Jones
Nursing Mothers Counsel
Santa Cruz, California
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 10:26:38 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Sweden
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Dear Carol, they are coming at it from a different angle.
This is the country that gives mothers liberal paid time off after
childbirth.
They value breastfeeding.
They value babies and children.
The bottom line (and getting baby out of hospital ASAP) is not driving
their care.
Gives it a whole different spin. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
And yet I do believe in Sweden almost everybody gets an epidural during
childbirth and there are lots of forceps and vacuum deliveries and a
high-C-section rate.
Kathy D.
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 10:31:38 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: The Baby Story
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> some kind of obscure TV station (maybe "Discovery"?)has a show
>that consists of the pregnancy and birth stories of different couples - I
>was really shocked at how what I would think of as highly medicalized births
>were shown as normal, over and over again.
This is "The Baby Story" from The Learning Channel. They do occasionally
show a home birth, a water birth, a natural birth, but the vast majority are
medicalized to the absolute max and presented as perfectly normal. This is
one way culture gets transmitted -- all those young girls watching "The Baby
Story." One mother says "I wouldn't get my teeth drilled without an
anesthetic, I wouldn't get my appendix removed without an anesthetic, and
I'm not having a baby with my epidural." Also lots and lots of doctors
telling women when they are "allowed" to push, and for how long (to the
nurses' count of ten). Lots of immediate rushing of baby away for vigorous
suctioning, lots of "baby burrito" activity. Occasional breastfeeding, but
rarely.
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 09:33:49 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jerry & Jacie Coryell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: CNN transcript
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I just finished the CNN transcript about the baby who died. This could have
very well happened to me. Everything I had read before this talked about
breast reduction and mismanagement of breastfeeding. But what I picked up
was the congenital adrenal disease...this could have happened to me! My son
was born term and at the time, babies were seen at 6 weeks. I had called
the ped several times because my son threw up (not spit up, not reflux)
every day at the same time, huge amounts. He seemed thin, every though he
was 9'4" at birth, and I didn't even have pictures taken because he seemed
like a "sad" baby. Plus he seemed to be unhappy, too. At 5 weeks of age,
while lying on my chest, he had a seizure. Because my oldest had epilepsy,
the ped knew that I knew what a seizure looked like, and had me bring him
in. He said that he saw nothing wrong with him, but sent us to the hospital
for tests. My son was under birth weight and had the lowest sodium level
every recorded at that hospital (in Denver), and was diagnosed with
congenital hyperplasia. The docs said he would have died that night if I
hadn't brought him in. I fed frequently, was in communication with my
doctor, and still, we slipped thru the cracks. Plus, friends who saw my son
later said, well I thought he looked too thin/bad/etc, but I didn't want to
worry you. Thanks guys, I almost lost my baby/ These comments were said by
nurses! who should know better.
I believe that it was the adrenal problem that was the main issue in the
death of this baby, with the surgery and management a great part of it too,
of course.
I always tell my story to a mom if I am worried about her baby, so that
she knows I have her best interest at heart when I tell her why I'm
concerned about her baby. I actually saved one baby's life that way!
and my son is 23 years old and healthy!
Jacie in Albuquerque, New Mexico in the great American Southwest
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 10:37:10 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ignorance
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>"Oh", she said, incredulously,"There are books about breastfeeding???????"
Reminds me of those who ask, all agog, "It's possible to nurse a two year
old???!!!"
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 16:45:35 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: those pesky balloon gnomes
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Right, I'm getting my head round this gnome balloon analogy to explain the
way when and how the baby gets the foremilk and hindmilk...and I hate to be
picky, but it sorta falls down - sorry, Kathy! - and it's a real shame
'cos it sounds pretty good! That's the trouble with analogies....
Why?
Two reasons -
1. The milk is basically the same milk - it is not produced in two
different parts of the breast in two different ways with two sets of
ingredients - unlike the pink and yellow balloons which are presumably
made separately and coloured separately, and brought by the gnomes in two
separate consignments : )
2. The milk is made at the mother's end - that is, she makes the pink
balloons at the wall end of things, and some of them *change into yellow
balloons* at the baby end of things.
I find mothers - and health professionals - end up thinking the milk is
made according to two separate recipes, one high in fat and one low in fat.
I sometimes say foremilk is milk that has trickled down the ducts, and the
way the water trickles down the sponge (in the oil and water sponge trick,
which I think is a more consistently 'true' analogy) reflects this....but I
am looking for an analogy that really helps with the 'more frequent feeds
equals fattier milk' thing, to illustrate the dynamics of milk production
and the baby's role.
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 12:03:53 -0400
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From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Sweden
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At the art of birthing conference this was addressed by a swedish midwife
(I think) or doula there. She talked about how the swedish woman emulate
the US women when it comes to birth and meds etc. She talked about how
important it is for the US to take the lead because we are always seen as
the "best way."
That can explain, at least in part, the decline of homebirth and the
increase of epidurals and C/s's in the Scandinavias.
Susan
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 09:08:42 PDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: laurie wheeler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: pampers clarification
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Joanne and lactnuts
Just to clarify that I was giving the pampers website only for mediawatchers
who want to write about the bottle pictures on pampers diapers and the
connection between/among pampers/walmart/formula.
I was not endorsing the website for its info/parenting advice.
And I agree with Joanne about Brazelton being less than supportive of bf and
attachment parenting, imho.
Laurie Wheeler, RN, MN, IBCLC
Louisiana Breastfeeding MediaWatch Campaign
Violet Louisiana, USA
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 12:46:05 -0400
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From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: night-time parenting
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Kathy D.,
Thanks for the thoughtful response to my inquiry about what to tell parents
in the Nite Time parenting class. I am going to take this to our next LC
meeting where I am sure there will be a great deal of wailing and gnashing
about the need to comply with whatsoever the AAP suggests.
Susan
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 12:58:01 EDT
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Alcohol
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Liz says,
<< If a mother has to have a drink,
it should set off a mental red flag to health professinals. >>
True. But there is a MAJOR difference between HAS to have a drink, and WANTS
to have a drink. And just because one person was planning to drink an entire
bottle of champagne on mother's day doesn't mean that everyone that asks
about having a glass of wine with dinner or a can of beer with their pizza is
doing any more than that.
Chocolate (and coffee, and tea, and cow's milk) isn't "nutritionally
necessary" either -- but many moms have been told they can't have any during
pregnancy (or lactation). Should we tell them no to everything that isn't
"nutritionally necessary?"
The point is, let's not make so many rules, not be judgemental (unless there
is warrant for concern), and give the facts, not the opinions. For a mother
that wants to drink an entire bottle of -- whatever -- then discuss with her
the effects of the hangover, the potential for delayed MER, and the
possibility that the baby will have difficulty going back to the br after she
has pumped and dumped for 2 hrs x however many glasses of champagne there are
in a bottle.
As Jack has pointed out, we tell them they can have morphine & codeine while
breastfeeding, but not a can of beer?
Jan Barger, RN, MA, IBCLC -- in Wheaton, IL where it is sunny again!
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 13:34:58 -0400
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<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Foremilk/hindmilk
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I get plenty of laughs when I tell moms that saying "I breastfeed until I
run out of milk, then give him formula," is like saying "I breathe until I
run out of air, then I use an oxygen tank." Then they understand that
they've got the process *backwards* in their minds. Breathe IN ORDER to
have oxygen. Breastfeed in order to have milk......*sigh*.......
Regina Roig Lane BS IBCLC for Miami-Dade County WIC
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Sorry to blow my own trumpet here, but I caused great hilarity the other
> day when I asked a mother if she waited until her salivary glands had
> saved up enough saliva before eating! She got the point :-)
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Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 12:01:34 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jean Ridler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hindmilk and foremilk
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Anne
With most mothers here being instructed to feed for 10 minutes each side
(sometimes less in the early days) and all sorts of other restrictions
and obstacles, I do discuss fore/hindmilk prenatally. It is given no
great emphasis, but used along with other information to explain why
restricting the duration of a feed is not advisable.
It is also discussed postnatally for the same reasons or when discussing
using one breast per feeding episode.
IMHO knowledge is empowering (without trying to overwhelm the new
mother.)
Jean Ridler RN RM IBCLC (private practice)
Cape Town, South Africa
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 13:52:08 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Electric bottle warmers
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Has anyone heard if electric bottle warmers are safe for breast milk? does
it in any way break down the BM composition like the microwave or boiling
water? I have a patient who received one as a gift and is asking me - I
figured it would depend on how hot it becomes? Any suggestions?
Joy Moores, BScN, RNC, Lactation counsellor
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 14:12:03 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: alcohol and caution
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Dear Folks:
Do people really believe that if a lactating woman wants a drink, she
is sending up a red flag about her mental health?
While drinking a whole bottle of champagne is not something to
encourage, what is the problem with a glass or two spread out over an
afternoon? Remember the evidence shows no signs of harm with moderation.
There is lots of made-up information passed on to because the advisee is
afraid or judgemental; the areas of alcohol, medications, and disease are
very susceptible to this. I need to be cautious when I make recommendations,
and take care that I am giving evidence-based information, not my opinion or
feeling. Warmly, Nikki Lee
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 14:19:57 EDT
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Botulism
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In 1980, my completely breastfed 6 month old child had botulism and we live
in northern NJ. Based on all of the research I did at the time and in
correspondence with the CDC, the only thing, at the time, we were able to
conclude as a possible cause was excavation in a nearby lot for a new home.
The spores for botulism can be airborne and can be unearthed during
excavation. Another child in my town also had botulism a few years later and
again a new home was going up across the street. Was there any building going
on in the Route 1 corridor? That is more likely the cause than lack of use
of antibacterial soap.
Gerri
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 14:25:09 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Carol and all:
I never meant to imply that you were "an idiot". I apologize if it sounded
that way.
I too have heard Dr. Nyquist and other physicians where breastfeeding is the
norm. I would love to have all of the babies in my nursery breastfed only -
but US Moms do not get the same pregnancy/birth leave that Swedish moms do,
do not have the same social support systems; US Hosiptals are not built for
"rooming in" for all mothers to be with their babies; and the attitudes here
are different re parenting. I am very proud of my nursery and my nurses as we
have the same percentage of mothers breastfeeding their preterm, sick infants
as breastfeed their term, healthy ones (~ 90%) qand sometimes more than the
healthy ones! My babies do NOT have to prove they can eat at bottle to take
the breast - they go to breast first.
I feel a bit uncomfortable having no standard of growth and development for
preterm, breastfed infants. Perhaps Dr. Nyquist has published something that
would help us.
Nancy Wight MD, FAAP, IBCLC
Neonatologist
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 19:54:15 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: alcohol
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi All,
>At the risk of sounding ultra conservative, since when is alcohol
>nutritionally neccessary!
> Just like smoking and unneeded drugs or bad
>health habits its an optional activity.
Alcohol in moderation has been shown to have health advantages, so I
don't think it should be listed necessarily as a "bad health habit".
> If a mother has to have a drink,
>it should set off a mental red flag to health professinals.
I think that would be somewhat of an over-reaction to a mother who
indulges occasionally. I would be surprised if an alcoholic would
readily admit to a health professional that they "have" to have a drink
(just MHO).
> We recently
>counseled a client who called to ask about having a drink on mothers day.
>During the discussion the LC learned she planned to drink a whole bottle of
>Champagne to celebrate, while nursing a 2 week old, because " I didn't
>drink in pregnancy so now I can".
I have personally met women who refused to breastfeed because they
believed you couldn't drink any alcohol while nursing so I think there
is a danger in banning drinking while breastfeeding entirely. As they
say on the newsgroups, "Your Mileage May Vary", but I don't believe
their is any evidence that moderate drinking will do any harm.
Also, I would be concerned about any mother, breastfeeding or not, who
planned to care for a baby after a bottle of champagne. I would have
thought being drunk was somewhat risky.
>Hardly the same as one beer or a glass of
>wine of wine.
Exactly, and the age and weight of the baby should be taken into account
too, I believe. When I talked about drinking while nursing, I was
talking about a 28lb, 9mo, not a tiny newborn!
>How much is too much?
Maybe someone else can answer this, but I was always lead to believe
that one or two glasses or wine, or halves of beer, a couple of times a
week is OK.
> Dr. Ludington -Hoe says if you want to
>kill brain cells, drink alcohol.
I think that is just personal opinion.
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 15:02:19 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jane and Fred Squires <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Expert Witness
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Hello: I've just been called by the public defenders office .
She has a case on Monday involving a mother with a 2 month old
breastfeeding baby who has to go to jail. She wants me to come to testify
as an expert witness for why mother and baby should not be separated at this
point in time.
If you have ever been called to be an expert witness please contact me
privately, to let me know how things went. Also what good resources should I
bring with me for documentation purposes?
I am thrilled to have been contacted, but scared to death, since I have
never been to court before. The public defender surprised me by asking the
following question prior to the close of our conversation: And what do you
charge? The case is on Monday sometime in the morning, so if you have any
ideas suggestions I need them before the 24th. Thanks a lot.
Sincerely
Jane Squires RN, IBCLC
Martinsburg, WV
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 15:11:12 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Michael Reeder <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Foremilk and Hindmilk
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We have a very clever game that we play in our (Basel Childbirth Trust)
antenatal classes that covers "test weighing" and formilk and hindmilk. =
Perhaps I can simply explain it. =
We have 3 small poster boards. On the first is drawn a baby bottle, on t=
he
other two are simple drawings of breasts. The poster with the baby bottl=
e
comes with 30 small white circles. The two posters with breasts come wit=
h
20 blue circles and 20 orange circles, divided equally between the two
breasts with the blue circles nearest the nipple. =
Each group is given one poster. The teacher slowly counts to 20. The ba=
by
bottle group is instructed to take one circle off the poster for each
count. The first breast poster group is instructed to take blue dots fro=
m
the first breast for the first 10 counts, and blue dots from the second
breast for the second 10 counts. The second breast poster group is
instructed to take all their circles only from one breast. =
After the excercise, we explain to them that the white circles represent=
water and have no calories. =
The blue circles are worth one calorie and the orange circles are worth 5=
calories. =
The object lesson would be that all the babies would "test weigh" (BTW,
this weighing is sometimes encouraged over here so we feel that we should=
address it ) the same. The all received 20 ounces of fluid. But of
course the baby that was fed the water received no calories and the baby
that was fed at two breasts for 10 counts each only gets 20 calories whi=
le
the baby that was fed from one breast recieved, 60 calories. We then also=
talk about "finish first breast first". I think it is a great visual
lesson. =
Sorry this was so long, but I have really enjoyed the ideas that I have
gotten from this list, and wanted to share too!! =
Schoene Tag, =
Merilee Reeder =
Basel CH =
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 15:38:04 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: We're a cult
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A mom on another list alerted me to this site
Here's the address:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ridge/1989/other/bf_cult.html
Are you a Proud Member of the Militant Breastfeeding Cult?
It's our friend from Bottle Feeding Without Guilt. I guess we've been elevate
to "cult status."
Marie Davis, RN, IBCLC
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 15:36:56 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Subject: Alcohol
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Somewhere I recall being told that if mom can feel the effects of alcohol
(numb lips, "woozy" feeling, drowsiness, etc.), then her blood level is high
enough for the alcohol to be in her milk at that time, and if she nurses
while having these symptoms, the baby WILL be getting alcohol. If mom has a
glass or two of wine at dinner, say, and later nurses the baby after the
"warm" feeling has subsided, then chances are a significant portion of the
alcohol has left her blood AND been filtered out of her milk.
I, again, teach moms to listen to their bodies and their babies when making
decisions. But I also mention that a drink a night is still 30 drinks/month,
and WAY too much for most people, especially when breastfeeding is involved.
Smiles,
Carol
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 15:42:09 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: epidural dream world
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no, cathy, i thought they gave the epidurals in the lobby of the hospital,
before you even check in, and if you aren't there to deliver a baby, then
oops! so what, they aren't harmful.
the saddest thing is that i have learned that if i ask a client, how was the
birth? everything normal? no medications? and they say, yes, all natural,
they often had an epidural but they think that is a natural birth . . . .
carol brussel IBCLC
laura nevada lactation
denver co
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 15:48:58 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Cindy Curtis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: We're a cult
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That web page has been around for some time, I don't *think* it is Peggy
Robinsons page, I think that the lady who it belongs to is a real
breastfeeding supporter? You all take a look and let me know what you think.
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ridge/1989/other/bf_cult.html
Cindy
Cindy Curtis,RN,IBCLC
mailto:[log in to unmask]
http://www.erols.com/cindyrn
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 20:53:27 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Woolridge/Renfrew paper
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I spoke to Mike Woolridge today (well-known bf person, now at the Univerity
of Leeds). He was presenting at a study day near me.
The news on his paper - this is the (for UK bf world) the long-awaited
paper called Enabling Women to Breastfeed, commissioned by our Department
of Health some years ago, and now in the press.
Mike W. and Mary Renfrew (and I notice that Helen McGill is named as one of
the authors now) were asked to look at what was already 'known' about
supporting breastfeeding and assess its importance and relevance and
reliabilty. It is similar to what childbirth folk know as 'ECPC' - the
tome by Eirse et al on Effective Care in Pregnancy and Childbirth.
They have taken studies as far back as 1945 - it amounts to a bunch, as you
can imagine - with a view to educating the bf world to base all
interventions aimed at changing behaviour and supporting bf on good
evidence...and to show where the gaps are so new research can be done.
It will be published by the UK govt. Stationery Office in '6-8 weeks' says
Mike. We are agog for it here.
The latest delay was because the Stationery Office had printed each page
with a nice little logo of a doctor with a stethoscope....and when that met
with gasps of horror from the team, they swapped it for a nurse with a cap
on. It had to go back again for something which did not echo the medical
model....: )
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 16:05:22 -0400
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From: Barb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: alcohol
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"There is no scientific evidence that consumption of alcoholic beverages
has a beneficial impact on any aspect of lactation performance. If
alcohol is used, advise the lactating woman to limit her intake to no
more than 0.5 g of alcohol per kg of maternal body weight per day.
Intake over this level may impair the milk ejection reflex. For a 60-kg
(132 lb) woman, 0.5 g of alcohol per kg of body weight corresponds to
approximately 2 to 2.5 oz of liquor, 8 oz of table wine, or 2 cans of
beer."
Institute of Medicine (U.S.). Subcommittee on Nutrition During
Lactation. Nutrition During Lactation. National Academy Press,
Washington, D.C. 1991.
Barb Berges BS, RN, IBCLC
Rochester, New York
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 14:12:51 -0600
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<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Jill D Andrews OTR,CHT" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Hot vs. Cold
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Even in traditional physical therapy for injuries the hot vs. cold
debate still exists. Also keep in mind most of the research on this is on
trauma. The two biggest concerns in an injury with edema is keeping
motion and decreasing pain. Therefore treatment of decreasing edema
focuses on both. So only some of the principles apply with engorgement:
excess amount of fluid and pain.
And like so much of what we do the answers are not cut and dry and vary
with each situation.
Here might be some info to help. And by all means just the tip of the
iceberg.
COLD reduces inflammation and reduces outward fluid filtration , but
decreases pain and tissue extensibility. I would extrapolate that
therefore the increase fluid of engorgement would not go out but it
really helps the inflammation and pain. Bonnie- the decrease tissue
extensibility is usually the reason one gives to not massage a cold
breast. If something is not plyable it can snap so to speak.
HEAT increases blood flow and also helps with fluid filtration, and
increases tissue extensibility and but can increase inflammation.
Therefore massage works well with heat but heat can make the inflammation
worse.
Some therapists like to use both with a 3:1 up to 5:1 minute ratio of
heat to cold to address both. Or heat, then massage( and I would add then
nurse), then ice.
Clear as mud?
Jill Andrews OTR,CHT, LLLL
Louisville, CO
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 21:19:41 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Alcohol
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> But I also mention that a drink a night is still 30 drinks/month,
>and WAY too much for most people, especially when breastfeeding is involved.
>
Sorry....that still sounds dogmatic to me!
I think we need to know more before we can be sure what we are talking
about is not opinion, or value-judgement, or cultural...all of those
motivations are fine, of course, as long as they are recognised for what
they are, and they don't get mixed up with fact or research or science.
I suspect, for example, that my relative liberalism about drinking while
breastfeeding and indeed at any other time has a cultural element in it
(though my views are backed by our govt's dept of health, and by the major
health professional organisations - all of which probably share the same
cultural bias as me!).
And to set the record straight, I don't drink much at all myself (at least
I don't think I do!).
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 16:10:53 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Maurenne griese <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Mother Earth News Letter
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I posted several months back about an article in Mother Earth News about
using honey for treating sore nipples. I also posted my editorial comments
that I sent to them. Well, guess what? They published my letter and a
photo of me in this month's issue. Next time you are at the newsstand,
check it out...
Back to the garden...
Maurenne Griese, RNC, BSN, CCE, CBE
Pregnancy & Childbirth Contributing Editor
http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/pregnancy_childbirth
Manhattan, KS USA
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 17:15:42 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Subject: Cisipride & Zantac causing slow weight gain??
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Thought I'd throw this out to the great Lactnet minds...I'm now working with
a little guy who is 8 weeks old and only 1.5 lbs. over birth weight. He's
breastfeeding well, with excellent milk transfer, frequency, and output.
He's been on Cisipride and Zantac for GE reflux for 6 weeks, and mom (an
intelligent mother) is feeling the meds are causing this problem. Has anyone
else had a similar experience? (I sent her back to the military pedi for
checks for everything I could think of, including UTI, cardiac, and CF). We
began supplementation immediately with expressed breast milk and he'll see
the doc tomorrow. Any ideas??
Kathy Parkes, RN, IBCLC
The Lactation Connection (TLC)
www.tlc4moms.com
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 16:17:37 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Maurenne griese <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: OPM Promoting On-Site Breast Milk Programs
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Each week, my husband receives a weekly e-mail newsletter for federal
employees. He forwarded this message onto me. Thought you all might be
interested. Maurenne
> 7. OPM Promoting On-Site Breast Milk Programs
> The Office of Personnel Management says that in keeping
> with President Clinton's "family friendly" workplace
> policies, federal agencies should set up programs that
> allow mother's to produce breast milk while at work.
> Here's what OPM says: "Not long ago breast-feeding was
> considered a private affair, solely carried out in the
> home. But today, many mothers are choosing to continue
> breast-feeding after they return to work. In order for
> mothers to keep producing ample supplies of milk, so
> they can avoid using formula supplements, nursing mothers
> need to pump their milk during the workday. Because of
> the large numbers of mothers choosing to do this, many
> corporations and federal agencies are beginning to offer
> lactation programs to working mothers who return to the
> job after being on leave for the birth of a child. It
> doesn't require a lot of money to set up a nursing
> mothers program. At a bare minimum, all that is required
> is a room with an outlet, refrigerator and chair that
> can be used as a pumping station."
>
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 16:27:18 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Laura Wright <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ABM reps in NHS clinics
In-Reply-To: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>'s
message of Wed, 19 May 1999 11:41:45 -0400
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It is my understanding that most ABM's are "adequate" nutritionally for
a 1mo (4wo) infant. Disregarding the fact that we all know that is still
galaxies different than Human Milk, This may be why follow-up formula is
considered OK for 8wo babes.
Any one know what age they "target"?
Next thing you know they'll have "quarterly" formulas, and the only
difference will be the label! Anyone know if the follow-up stuff is
really any different on the inside of the package?
Laura
Eschew Obfuscation!
"A newborn baby has only three demands. They are warmth in the arms of
its mother, food from her breasts, and security in the knowledge of her
presence. Breastfeeding satisfies all three." ~ Dr. Grantly Dick-Read
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 16:47:55 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Susan Horein <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: hospital co-sleeping
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The hospital I birthed my first child in had(has?) regular double/queen
beds in their post-partum rooms, for Mom, Dad, and baby. Looked more like
a hotel room than a hospital room.
Susan
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 17:46:20 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 19 May 1999 - Special issue (#1999-249)
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<< > But I also mention that a drink a night is still 30 drinks/month,
>and WAY too much for most people, especially when breastfeeding is involved.
>
Sorry....that still sounds dogmatic to me!
>>
I admit my last comment (above) may be construed as dogmatic. I do think
some of what is happening in this thread is a difference in cultures. Most
of my class participants are Americans without a strong ethnic influence.
Being married to a second-generation Italian, I'm aware that alcoholic
consumption, especially wine or beer with meals, etc. is an everyday,
"normal" practice. I'm also trained as a social worker, however, as well as
being an Adult Child of a chemically dependent mother. So I'm more cautious,
maybe, than the literature would warrant in advising against a drink a night.
Thank you, Heather, for reminding us to look at where our clients are coming
from, socially, culturally, and chemically, when we dole out our
recommendations!
Carol Schlef, RNC, MSW, IBCLC
St. Louis, MO USA
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 15:50:39 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Deanne Francis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: infant botulism
A few years ago in this area of the country, it was recommended by
pediatricians that infants not be given any honey because of the risk of
infant botulism. Apparently the strain of botulism only adversely affects
babies, but adults were okay. Now, I can apply that information to botulism
in bottle fed babies, where moms have added honey, or put it on a pacifier,
but breastfed??????
Deanne
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 17:58:50 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Janice Berry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: hospital co-sleeping
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Susan Horein wrote:
> The hospital I birthed my first child in had(has?) regular double/queen
> beds in their post-partum rooms, for Mom, Dad, and baby. Looked more like
> a hotel room than a hospital room.
Where is this? It sounds fabulous!
Janice Berry, mom of Zack (11/30/92) and Gina (9/4/96)
Westerville, OH
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 16:57:02 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Laura Wright <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Wee a cult...I'm a PROUD member!
In-Reply-To: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>'s
message of Wed, 19 May 1999 17:19:32 -0400
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I found this website last year, and if you look, my name is on the
roster! Personally, I'll support just about anything that is anti-
"Bottle feeding w/o Guilt".
If you enjoy reading "The Compleate Mother", you'll like this website,
too.
Just remember, BF advoates come from all lifestyles, cultures,
socioeconomic groups, religions, and life philosphies.
Laura Wright
Eschew Obfuscation!
"A newborn baby has only three demands. They are warmth in the arms of
its mother, food from her breasts, and security in the knowledge of her
presence. Breastfeeding satisfies all three." ~ Dr. Grantly Dick-Read
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 22:41:29 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Alcohol
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi All,
>I suspect, for example, that my relative liberalism about drinking while
>breastfeeding and indeed at any other time has a cultural element in it
>(though my views are backed by our govt's dept of health, and by the major
>health professional organisations - all of which probably share the same
>cultural bias as me!).
I will never forget being on holiday in France, pregnant with my first
baby. According to the advice at the time, I was in France unable to eat
pate, soft cheeses, salami or shellfish (I deserved a medal, I think).
Also, I had read that Americans avoided coffee and alcohol, so I was
doing that too (even though the British Dept. of Health aren't so
strict). So there I am, in a French restaurant in Vouvray, Loire, unable
to eat 99% of the menu, when an obviously heavily pregnant French woman
sat down opposite me, and preceeded to eat a lunch of pate, Brie,
salami-type stuff, washed down with a couple of glasses of red wine and
strong coffee! Later on, I got talking to her, and when I tactfully
enquired about this she said "You English worry too much! It is bad for
the baby to be so anxious!"
I hate to say it, but I feel she had a point :-)
--
Anna H. (Mummy to Emma, 17-1-95, Alice, 11-9-96, Samuel, 25-4-98)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"I'm very courageous, but I have cowardly legs" Spike Milligan
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/index.html
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 18:00:52 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: iron absorption mixing human milk and formula
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Dear Well Organized Lactnetters-
Either I'm dreaming or I have read an article about how iron
fortified formula impacts the bioavailability of iron in mothers milk
(breastfed infants who get supplements of formula). A pediatrician asked me
about it, I confidently replied that I had information on it, and now I can't
locate it. Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance!
-Debi Page Ferrarello, RN, IBCLC
Abington, PA
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 18:12:10 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Sarah Barnett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Verdict in Bronx trial
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I just heard a news headline on WCBS radio in NYC that the mother was
found GUILTY in the starvation death of her baby. I find myself very
saddened by this. Although it was possible that she was guilty it was
also totally conceivable to me that the fault was elsewhere, if fault or
blame can truly be assigned. What concerns me more is my fear that so
many women will be disuaded from breastfeeding, or even prohibited from
breastfeeding because of this.
Sarah
Sarah Friend Barnett LLLL, IBCLC
Bronx (New York City), NY - [log in to unmask]
" You are not obliged to finish the task,
neither are you free to neglect it." R. Tarfon
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 18:25:13 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Subject: Milk alcohol levels
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I remember an article in JHL about alcohol and breastfeeding. It
seems that milk alcohol levels mirror blood alcohol levels. As blood alcohol
level increases, so does milk alcohol level. As the blood alcohol level
ebbs, so does milk alcohol level. Alcohol doesn't stay in the milk, and so
doesn't need to be expressed out.
Women who aren't menstrurating, such as those experiencing lactation
amenorrhea, metabolize alcohol differently than wome who are having monthly
cycles, and are likely to have higher alcohol levels with a given level of
consumption than they would have if menstruating.
If a mother nurses her baby, then has dinner with a glass of wine,
her blood alcohol level, and so her milk alcohol level, is likely to be very
near zero. Now that third or fourth glass of wine is another story ;-)...
-Debi Page Ferrarello, RN, IBCLC
Abington, PA
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 18:31:10 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Medicalized births
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In a message dated 99-05-19 11:39:49 EDT, you write:
<< his show is called "A Baby Story" (or something along those lines) and I
think it is on Lifetime. I've only seen it 4-5 times and it does appear to
be heavily slanted towards interventions. I saw one woman in full makeup,
with perfectly coifed hair, having a scheduled C-section. I didn't think
makeup would be allowed during surgery. Don't you need to see lip and skin
tone? >>
No. because there is another technology in place during surgery called a
pulse oximeter. Like a little clothespin it is worn on the finger and checks
O2 saturations during the c-section. !
Jane C.
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 18:40:18 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Tabitha Walrond :guilty
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I just heard on the national news that Tabitha Walrond was found guilty of
starving her baby to death (negligent homicide).
She will be sentenced next week.
Katie Allison Granju
http://www.attachmentparent.com/
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 18:46:06 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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<<NEW YORK, May 19 (Reuters) - A young mother was found guilty of criminally
negligent homicide Wednesday after jurors decided she bore some
responsibility for the death from starvation of the baby she was
breast-feeding. In reaching the verdict, the jury found Tabitha Walrond, 21,
innocent of the more serious charge of manslaughter. >>
Sad state of affairs...this mom was one who fell through all the cracks.
Kathy Parkes, RN, IBCLC
The Lactation Connection (TLC)
www.tlc4moms.com
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 18:51:41 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
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Nancy,
I don't know you personally, but from reading your posts I would gather that
you do try your hardest to practice in a breastfeeding friendly manner within
the medical constraints of the needs of prematurity.
I agree with what you say about how US hospitals are set up. We have one free
room on our unit with 2 beds and chairs available for the moms of our NICU
babies. Sometimes we have 12 babies in NICU and a logistical nightmare when
all babies are being breastfed and ideally we would want the moms available
for feeds.
We do ourbest to support, teach and get babies to kangaroo and bf well prior
to D/C.
They don't all go home with BF well established. I wish we had a
breastfeeding clinic where they could return as outpatients without having to
incur lots of cost . (LCs in my neck of the woods in private practice are not
affordable for many)
It's a far from perfect system. But you are supporting the breastfeeding
process far better than most and I applaud you for that. The Neo at our hosp
does his best as well. I just wish other reg. peds would catch up to speed in
NORMAL situations.
Jane Ciaramella NY
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 19:19:05 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Iron-Fortified Formula
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>>Either I'm dreaming or I have read an article about how iron
fortified formula impacts the bioavailability of iron in mothers milk
(breastfed infants who get supplements of formula). A pediatrician asked me
about it, I confidently replied that I had information on it, and now I can't
locate it. >>
From The Breastfeeding Answer Book, LLLI, P. 515:
"Iron drops and iron-fortified foods sometimes cause digestive upsets in
babies and can reduce the efficiency of iron absorption. When iron
supplements are given, the baby's delicately balanced use of iron may be
jeopardized and digestive problems, such as vomiting and diarrhea, can
result. Two specialized proteins in mother's milk, lactoferrin and
transferrin, pick up and bind iron from the infant's intestinal tract. In
binding this iron, they stop harmful bacterial from multiplying by depriving
them of the iron they need for growth. When iron supplements are given to
the breastfed baby, the iron-binding abilities of lactoferrin and transferrin
are overwhelmed, allowing the bacterial to thrive."
Hope this helps.
Ruth Scuderi
Westfield, MA
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 18:48:40 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: wendey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: We're a cult
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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actually that site IS a real bf support page, sort of a thumb your nose if
you will at Peggy Robin.
There's a whole web ring of the Militant Breastfeeding Cult. The women eat
it up ;-)
-wendey (studying LC in Montreal, where it is rainy)
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 19:24:34 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: Re: Tabitha Walrund
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<< <<NEW YORK, May 19 (Reuters) - A young mother was found guilty of
criminally
negligent homicide Wednesday after jurors decided she bore some
responsibility for the death from starvation of the baby she was
breast-feeding. In reaching the verdict, the jury found Tabitha Walrond, 21,
innocent of the more serious charge of manslaughter. >>
Sad state of affairs...this mom was one who fell through all the cracks.
Kathy Parkes, RN, IBCLC
The Lactation Connection (TLC)
www.tlc4moms.com >>
And, as someone pointed out to me, if this mom had been a middle-class,
married Caucasion whose baby had died from strict adherence to the Ezzo
program, she never would have seen the inside of a courtroom!
Ruth Scuderi
Westfield, MA
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 14:09:38 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: C Eden <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: breastfeeding as a vaccine
I kept thinking about this as I read some recent posts about vaccinations.
At our last BF Taskforce meeting, I noticed a poster that our one and only
MD/pediatrician member had on recommended vaccination schedule. It read as
usual but had "breastfeed and" before each shot, at least up to the 12/15
months shots. I didn't get a good look at it to know who printed it, but I
thought it was such a good point! LLL says colostrum is baby's first
vaccination; all recommended vaccination schedules should include
breastfeeding.
Claire Cutler Eden
Wife to Carlton
Mummy to Maren 7/96 and ??? 7/99
La Leche League Leader
Lake Worth, Florida
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 19:12:56 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Joanne McCrory <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Alcohol
Comments: cc: [log in to unmask]
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As I recall from a LLL conference here in Illinois in April of 1998, Jan
Barger gave a seminar on Medications and Breastfeeding. My notes are:
"alcohol is non-protein bound, peaks within 30-90 minutes of consumption and
is gone from milk with in 2 hours. Maternal blood alcohol levels must
attain 300mg/dl before significant side effects are reported in the infant.
(blood levels of 100mg/dl is equivalent to a heavy, habitual drinker)" To
me, this is the most significant aspect: "there is a 23% reduction in milk
production for the next feeding". Jan, if this is wrong, please correct me!
Joanne
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 20:08:11 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Megan & David Schmidt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: epidural dream world
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When I talk to my patients, I find that they see a "natural birth" as one that
ends in a vaginal delivery. Labor may have included an epidural, narcotics, 3rd
or 4th degree epis, forceps, or any number of interventions. To them, a vaginal
birth is a natural one.
Megan Schmidt, RN, IBCLC
[log in to unmask] wrote:
> no, cthe saddest thing is that i have learned that if i ask a client, how was
> the
> birth? everything normal? no medications? and they say, yes, all natural,
> they often had an epidural but they think that is a natural birth . . . .
>
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 20:11:19 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Megan & David Schmidt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: hospital co-sleeping
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Fairview Riverside in Minneapolis, MN used to have a few LDRP rooms set up like
this. It was almost a shame that we left less than 12 hours post partum. From
what I understand, a lot of hospitals are moving away from the LDRP set up.
What a shame.
Megan Schmidt, RN, IBCLC
Janice Berry wrote:
> Susan Horein wrote:
>
> > The hospital I birthed my first child in had(has?) regular double/queen
> > beds in their post-partum rooms, for Mom, Dad, and baby. Looked more like
> > a hotel room than a hospital room.
>
> Where is this? It sounds fabulous!
> Janice Berry, mom of Zack (11/30/92) and Gina (9/4/96)
> Westerville, OH
> [log in to unmask]
>
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 21:42:51 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: fore-milk /hindmilk balloon analogy
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I have slides of electronmicrographs I found in the mid 1990s while preparing
a lecture. One shows many fat globules clinging to the epithelial cells that
secrete milk - of a mouse. Another shows the difference in the shape of the
cells bulging into the lumen of the alveoli after the MER, and craters where
the milk fat globules were formerly clinging to the epithelial cell
membranes. The MER helps to dislodge the HMFGs from the outside of the milk
manufacturing cells.
Remember that the human, and, I assume from these photos, mouse milk fat
globules are packaged in a membrane and secreted via exocytosis to the
outside of the manufacturing cell. These packaged globules cling to the cell
until the milk ejection reflex occurs which squeezes the alveoli.
If there is lots of foremilk in the ducts when the first MER occurs then
although these HMFGs will be loosed from the epithelial cells - where will
they go? They will initially mix into the milk way back in the alveoli, not
in the larger lactiferous ducts. And since fat floats, I would guess that
the fat globules would tend to float upward away from the nipple pores.
Only after enough foremilk has been removed from the ducts will the fat be
able to get closer to the lactiferous sinuses to be removed from the breast.
If a baby stays on the breast long enough to elicit several MERs then I
would assume that if there are any milk fat globules sitll attached to the
epithelials cells after the first MER, they would be dislodged and increase
the fat concentration.
Michael Woolridge told us a few weeks ago in Vermont that there is a the
gradual changeover to higher fat content milk (and that one mother had taken
over 25 minutes to have significant fat content). Also, that when feedings
are frequent and closely spaced, the milk has a higher fat content at the
beginning of the subsequent feeds than if a long time had passed. He
summarized that there is a negative correlation between time of feeds and the
amount of fat present, and that feeding more frequently sustains higher fat
levels. What predicts the amount of fat present at the end of the feed?
Current volume and feed duration. (And that current volume was the more
significant.)
If the next feeding is sooner, then there is greater residual hindmilk left
in the ducts from the last feed, so there can be two peaks in fat content.
The one at the beginning of the feed when the milk volume is higher from the
residual fat and the peak that occurs later in the feed when the hindmilk
from that feed is reached.
So, I think that if there has been a longer time in between feeds that the
balloon analogy holds. Only when enough volume of foremillk has been removed
will the milk fat globules be in higher concentration in the milk the baby is
receiving. There will be very little fat evident in the first milk when
there is a long interfeed interval as the volume of the milk has greatly
increased and the fat globules have receded further away from the lactiferous
sinuses.
Mardrey Swenson, DC IBCLC
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 22:15:20 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Rhonda Feder/Gregory Capps <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: infant botulism
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Melissa Kirsch wrote:
>>I wonder if its possible that ABM-fed babies get the same thing and die
of "SIDS" while the breastfed babies are healthier and end up being
diagnosed for it. Does anyone know if autopsies on SIDS babies check for
infant botulism?>>
I met a woman whose then 5 month old was in CHOP (Children's Hospital of
Philadelphia) when my daughter was in there almost a year and a half ago.
Her son had infant botulism, and was breastfed -- we met in the pumping room
of the NICU. She told me that her son's doctor said that breastfeeding
saved his life -- if he weren't being breastfed, he very likely would not
have made it alive to the hospital.
Rhonda Feder
Elkins Park, PA
lawyer and lay counselor in training
-----Original Message-----
From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
To: Recipients of LACTNET digests <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 9:19 AM
Subject: LACTNET Digest - 19 May 1999 - Special issue (#1999-246)
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 19:31:14 PDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: laurie wheeler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Fwd: Acad of bf medicine nEWSLETTER subscription
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several people have asked about academy of bf medicine newsletter. yes,
individuals and orgs can subscribe. contact below for more info or for
price. laurie wheeler
>Subject: FW: ABM NEWSLETTER subscription
>Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 17:43:53 -0500
>
Please e-mail me your fax number and I will fax the newsletter subcriber
form. You may publish my e-mail address: [log in to unmask] or
ABM, PO Box 15945-284, Lenexa, KS 66285-5945, 913/541-9077 phone,
913/541-0156 fax.
>Cathy Webber
>Association Manager
_______________________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 22:35:46 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Sarah Barnett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Verdict in Bronx trial
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I just heard a news headline on WCBS in NYC that the Bronx mother WAS q
NrP^"_2^ ) Sarah Friend Barnett LLLL, IBCLC5=i18"2bv5,p$2{C32}8_wSJ7 Bronx (New York City), NY -
[log in to unmask] " You are not obliged to finish the task,
$C ,aneither are you free to neglect it." R. Tarfon
Rsd+9.\(
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 22:57:11 EDT
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Inductions
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Just sold a pump kit to a mom who is borrowing a pump from a friend to use
in case of engorgement. The mom will be induced tomorrow AM because she is
"already a week overdue". The hospital lactation specialist told her she
probably will need a pump to deal with the engorgement because all Moms have
that. The induction is on Thursday so she will be home by the weekend. She
was told that all inductions are done on Thursdays. She sees a group of
CNM's.
This is the hospital which wants to apply for Baby Friendly Status.
Another Mom had an amnio last Friday AM and was told the baby had an elevated
enzyme level and was induced 2 weeks early so the baby didn't develop a heart
defect (Mom's understanding of what the amnio was for). Baby is fine. Mom
was told that sometimes the tests are inaccurate. So for that she went
through an induction and 16 hrs of labor and a medicated childbirth to
deliver a baby that weighs 5 lbs and is 2 weeks early.
Barbara Whitehead, IBCLC ( banging my head against the wall!)
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 19:54:48 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Liz Brooks <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 19 May 1999 - Special issue (#1999-250)/iron
supplements in formula
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I'm a first-time poster who hopes you all see the irony in my using this
international communication tool to address a query posed by an IBCLC who
works 10 minutes from me. I am Liz Brooks, JD, IBCLC, a fledgling LC just
outside of Philadelphia.
Deb -- could this be what you're thinking about? Riordan and Auerbach
(1993 ed.) discuss iron in bmilk at p. 115; they cite a 1972 study that
says early intro of solids impairs the efficiency of iron absorption from
the bmilk. "Excess iron tends to saturate lactoferrin and thereby
diminish its antinfective properites." Presumably, iron-fortified formula
would be an "excess amount." Bullen JJ, Rogers HJ and Leigh L:
Iron-binding proteins in milk and resistance to Escherichia coli infection
in infants, Br Med J 1:69-75, 1972.
The Breastfeeding Answer Book discusses the issue a bit at p. 515 ... but
offers no cites to supporting papers. "When iron supplements are given to
the BF baby, the iron-binding abilities of lactoferrin and transferrin are
overwhelmed, allowing bacteria to thrive." [Lactoferrin and transferrin
pick up and bind with iron from baby's gut, thus depriving bad-guy
bacteria from using the iron to mulltiply.]
Ruth Lawrence's book (4th ed'n) says at p. 302 that "When a BF infant must
be supplemented with formula, it is preferable that a formula low in iron
be used to avoid providing excessive iron that will bind with lactoferrin
and interfere with its protective activity."
===
Liz Brooks, JD, IBCLC
_____________________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 22:16:10 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Julius Edlavitch MD <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Breastfeeding, Family Planning, Lactational Amenorrhia Method-LAM
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#########################################################
SUNDAY May 23rd, 1999 at 2PM Eastern USA Time (NY TIME)
Breastfeeding, Family Planning, Lactational Amenorrhia Method-LAM
Miriam Labbok, MD, MPH, FACPM, IBCLC
Chief, Nutrition and Maternal/Infant Health Division
Office of Health and Nutrition
United States Agency for International Development
http://www.pedschat.org/lam/sld001.htm
This will be a "JAVA WEBTOUR"
#########################################################
Monday May 24th at 9PM Eastern USA Time
"Minnesota's Lactation Friendly Workplace Program"
Speaker:Joanne M. Wesley, BA, IBCLC
Breastfeeding Special Projects Coordinator
Minnesota Department of Health
BREASTFEEDING CHAT EVERY MONDAY AT 9 PM NY TIME
With Kay Hoover MA ED and Jack Newman MD
##########################################################
Our season is closing and I work very hard to produce some first class
lactation education topics. I would greatly appreciate a good attendance
from my electronic friends here for both Miriam and Joanne.
PLEASE make the effort to support this
Julius Edlavitch MD
International Pediatric Chat
http://www.pedschat.org
"What Wisdom Can One Have That Is Greater Than Kindness"
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 00:07:55 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: inductions
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and what really kills me about this is mothers being told "your baby is 37
and 5/7 weeks" but the ultrasound machine supposedly says on it "error factor
plus or minus one week - ten days" - is this true? i haven't seen one lately.
but how could it be more accurate than that, and basing inductions on that
sort of speculation is awful.
carol brussel IBCLC
laura nevada lactation
denver colorado
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 23:58:45 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Lynda Pond <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 16 May 1999 to 17 May 1999 - Special issue
(#199...
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I was just in my local health food store for supplements when the clerk
showed me the latest cure all for whatever ails us. Colostrum! Extracted
from cows that have just delivered, it is the pasturized, dryed (by different
methods depending on what country it is harvested in) packaged for human
consumption and marketed. Is anyone using these products for moms that can
not breastfeed or pump for illness or medication reasons? Lynda Pond RN,C
perinatal nurse
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 01:00:40 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: fostering
Comments: To: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask]
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Hi LLLadies,
long time since I've had little Jordan I've been nomail, but also had aol
crash twice and lost all your helpful and heart warming letters about
fostering little Jordan. Well, reaching out to you again, as it's getting
nearer to his getting adopted, and I was trying to put a letter from him to
mom and dad together, to say--hold me love me don't let me "cry it out" etc.
I got a wonderful article excerpt of Dr Sears from the Web about attachment
parenting
http://cnet.unb.ca/orgs/prevention_cruelty/attach.htm
but would like any of the fostering sites, warnings about the dangers of Ezzo
sites, cosleeping info-esp reference to not bf baby, and also any
advice/suggestions as to how to say what I need to say from him to them.
Thanks in advance,
oops email privately,
[log in to unmask]
Georgeanne Mattise
Scranton PA 15 yrs behind the times in everything
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 15:11:45 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: MARY BLACK <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: American way not always the best
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"She talked about how the swedish woman emulate
the US women when it comes to birth and meds etc. She talked about how
important it is for the US to take the lead because we are always seen as
the "best way."
Mulling this over makes me think again about cultural dominance. In=20
international health circles The US is often quoted as the example of how
not to do things and the lack of comprehensive health coverage, escalating =
litigation and spiralling costs, not to mention medicalised birth are =
often quoted. However the US does influence things a lot, because it =
exports medical experts and expertise, health people publish all over the
place and international media shows all the US medical shows, documentaries=
and sitcoms.
This is not to bag the US (as a Harvard alumna I acknowledge my roots) but =
there is a difference I think between influence and best practice. In many =
ways the US leads in the first and not in the second.
And part of the influence issue is that lack of understanding that there =
are many ways to do things and one culture does not have the monopoly on =
how to do things best. I got very worried when after the Berlin Wall fell =
a prominent US person announced at a Harvard discussion (Capitalism 10, =
communism 0) Some things in eastern Europe were actually done pretty well.
So...
Mary E Black
MB BCh BAO FAFPHM MFPHM MRCP(UK) MPH DTM&H DObst DCH
University of Queensland, Cairns, Australia
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 01:33:39 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: foremilk/hindmilk
Comments: cc: [log in to unmask]
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>I think Chris or Kay compared the difference once to Chinese food vs.
>Thanksgiving dinner!
Not me! Chinese food fills me up, and I love it, especially the sauce.
Chris
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:07:48 +0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Joy Anderson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Kathy D's balloon analogy
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I quite liked Kathy's balloon analogy about yellow balloons stuck to the
wall being foremilk and pink ones being the fat, except I would venture to
suggest a slight modification:
As the baby never gets *no* fat, particularly once let-down occurs, I would
change the analogy to say that there are a few pink balloons available to
baby while getting the yellow ones, but not many. As the number of yellow
balloons becomes less, then the proportion of pink ones increases, ie not
an all-or-none demarcation (sp?) of layers, but rather a gradient from
yellow to pink.
******************************************************************
Joy Anderson B.Sc. Dip.Ed. Grad.Dip.Med.Tech. IBCLC
Nursing Mothers' Association of Australia Breastfeeding Counsellor
Perth, Western Australia. mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 22:39:23 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ABM reps in NHS clinics
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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>It is my understanding that most ABM's are "adequate" nutritionally for
>a 1mo (4wo) infant. Disregarding the fact that we all know that is still
>galaxies different than Human Milk, This may be why follow-up formula is
>considered OK for 8wo babes.
Follow on milk is not suitable for babies under six months according to our
dept of health and the health professional organisations. It is illegal to
market it as such in the UK . Babies before that age have to have standard
formula. Follow on is less modified than standard formula and the iron
content is comparatively high. I think, too, the sodium is higher.
I am not sure if you have the same distinctions in the US, but we are
talking about different products.
Anna - I'm glad you've told Baby Milk Action. They monitor these
violations as you know.
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 14:24:18 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7oise_Railhet?= <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: journal of pediatrics
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I am very interessed by the article on mortality rate, in the issue of May
91 of The Journal of Pediatrics. I have tried its internet site, but there
is only articles from 1994. Does someone have the references of this text
(tittle, authors and so on) ?
Thank you a lot in advance
Francoise Railhet
Manager of the LLL France Medical Associates Program
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 07:35:55 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Alcohol
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> Later on, I got talking to her, and when I tactfully
>enquired about this she said "You English worry too much! It is bad for
>the baby to be so anxious!"
>
Well, Anna, you know she was right....there is some really good work
looking at the measurable impact of maternal stress levels on the unborn
baby, and its lasting effects into babyhood and possibly childhood...it's
to do with the rate of blood transfer and the efficiency of the placenta.
If people can get hold of the current issue of Practising Midwife - not
online : ( - you can read a very good editorial on this plus an article
which explains it all and the ideal impact of it all on practice.
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 08:05:33 GMT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Magda Sachs <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: BfN The Breastfeeding Network
Subject: follow on milks and promotion
>It is my understanding that most ABM's are "adequate" nutritionally for
a 1mo (4wo) infant....... This may be why follow-up formula is
considered OK for 8wo babes.
Any one know what age they "target"?<
The original post about samples of follow on milk came from the UK and I think
the important difference here is that the UK Law controls what you can do in
terms of free samples and advertising directly to mothers for infant formulae,
but does not control follow-ons in the same way. Legally follow-on milks are
only able to be advertised for use for babies over the age of 6 months.
Of course giving out company products (esp milks) which are 'allowed' to women
whose babies are of the age for the product which cannot be promoted in these
ways is essentially a way of weaseling through a loophole, or perceived loophole
(its debatable if it could be legally defended, I'd guess, but the statutory
authorities are pretty poorly clued up about this stuff) for the companies.
Remember this is a country where tins of formula DO NOT arrive on women's
doorsteps and formula samples are ILLEGAL. So they have to do it another way.
The history of regulation of the babymilk industry is paved with multinationals'
devious intentions.
Magda Sachs
Breastfeeding Supporter, The Breastfeeding Network
Area Contact, Baby Milk Action, UK
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 00:59:10 -0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Terriann Shell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: triplet pumping regime
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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My thoughts on pumping instructions for a mother of triplets who are not =
breastfeeding is that the mom pump ( double pump, hospital grade pump) =
as many times a day until two minutes past the time she gets the last =
drops of milk (and at least 15 minutes). She should aim to be pumping =
the amount of milk she will need to feed her babies at each feeding when =
they go home by the end of the first week.
This is a compilation of what Paula Maier and Peter Hartmann has said. =20
Terriann Shell
Big Lake, Alaska, USA
Where we have 18 hours of daylight and we never want to go to sleep! =
Great time to read Lactnet!
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 05:48:26 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: botulism
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The case I heard about was from Children's Hospital in Philadelphia. The
connection is two-fold. Construction going on in the area and baby is in a
transition stage, just starting solids or ABM. The spores apparently float
in the air. I'm not sure what could be done about it. Any baby is exposed
by using honey, but I think most know that. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 08:32:57 -0400
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From: Anne Cook <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: iron references
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> The Breastfeeding Answer Book discusses the issue a bit at p. 515 ... but
> offers no cites to supporting papers.
On page 523 there are 6 references cited, including Auerbach and Lawrence.
Anne Cook, MS, LLLL
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:55:13 GMT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Magda Sachs <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: BfN The Breastfeeding Network
Subject: eBMJ
For those of you who read the BMJ and saw Michale
Latham's nice editorial about breastfeeding in this week's mag 'Breastfeeding
reduces morbidity' there is a great electronic reply:
"Professor Latham;
If you were to follow your own excellent advice, the title of your article would
be "Formula feeding increases morbidity."
It's going to take us all a bit of time to get this new way of talking about bf
really 'bedded down' in our brains I guess!
Magda Sachs
Breastfeeding Supporter, BfN, UK
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:16:27 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: infant botulism
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Infant botulism is fortunately rare, but can certainly occur in breastfed
infants. The botulinum bacteria can grow in the gut of a breastfed baby and
produces the toxin which causes the paralysis & muscle weakness. The
bacteria doesn't grow in the mixed-E Coli flora of the adult gut. Adult
cases of botulism are from ingesting the toxin itself from food sources
(i.e., canned goods, etc.) The babies present with constipation (lack of gut
motility) and weakness; can progress to respiratory insufficiency (from
paralysis of respiratory muscles). Botulism will resolve with supportive
treatment.
Linda Shaw MD FAAP
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 08:27:26 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jon Ahrendsen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Teeth Whiteners
Comments: To: "Janet Simpson, CLE" <[log in to unmask]>
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The company might refuse to provide you with a list of
ingredients but they cannot refuse to give the list to the
dentist, in fact your dentist is breaking the law if he
does not have the MSDS info on the product.
MSDS stands for Material Safety Data Sheets and this
information is required by OSHA (Occupational Safety and
Health Administration) to be on file at any business so
that the vital information to protect employees is
available to the employees. This is a federal requirement
and so it applies to all of the USA. If your dentist
doesn't have it, s/he is in violation of OSHA law. In fact
the more that I think about it, I don't know if the company
that makes the whiteners can refuse to give you the MSDS
sheets. I know from our medical office, most companies
have some type of office that helps the buyers of their
products comply with these OSHA regulations.
Keep in mind that the MSDS sheets probably will not address
anything about the effect of them on lactating mothers, but
it should give you some information about effects of
ingestion skin contact, splashing it in the eyes etc.
Probably the most important information you want to find
out is what is the plasma level of this substance following
the use in a woman. IF the blood plasma level is not
detectable, then there is no need to worry as if the
substance is not in the mothers blood plasma, it is not
going to get into the milk. Let's say there is a little
bit in the mother's plasma for 2 hours after an application
but then it is gone, one it is no longer detected in the
mother's plasma it is not going to be even available to get
into the mother's milk.
My gut feeling is that this that use of this product is not
a reason to wean or even pump and dump, but that is only my
gut feeling and not a well researched answer.
Jon
Jon Ahrendsen MD ABFP LLL Medical Associate
& Becky
parents of Andrea, Elizabeth and Karl
Clarion, Iowa
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 10:12:57 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Barb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: alcohol
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Linda Pohl posted regarding alcohol in breastmilk in February 1999. I
saved her comments, because I found them so logical and understandable.
From them I have deduced the following:
Blood alcohol levels and breast milk alcohol levels are the same.
Legally drunk in many states is 0.1% blood alcohol. That is one tenth
of one percent.
Take one ounce of breast milk, divide it into 100 parts. Divide one of
those parts into 10 more parts. One of those last ten parts would be a
drop of alcohol. Not a very significant amount!
This is the concentration in a legally drunk woman. How much less there
would be in the milk of a mother who had one glass of wine!
Barb Berges BS, RN, IBCLC
Rochester, New York
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 10:11:43 EDT
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Georgia
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... my thoughts and prayers go out to our colleagues in Ga -
Patricia
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 10:11:57 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Subject: inductions
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Is it remotely possible that Barbara's mother-to-be (the one who rented a
breastpump prenatally to "deal with engorgement" ) was actually planning to
use the pump to induce labor?
tina
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:19:06 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Lucy Towbin <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: ADH
Subject: Nursing Toddler Stories
Do you have any cute nursing toddler stories you want to share? Here are
three. If you send them to me by private e-mail I'll post the best.
Thanks!
Diane's: My son would whisper to me, "Mommy, are these La Lechegg people?"
If
I said yes, he'd crawl into my lap to nurse. If I said no, he'd nod
and wander off. No fools, these little people!
Lucy's: My daughter was riding in the back seat with her Grandma, a retired
public health nurse. Usually Elisa didn't think about nursing unless she
was right in my lap, but for some reason this day it occurred to her as we
drove and she said "I want to nurse!" Grandma, who didn't know Elisa was
still nursing, said "You want a nurse? I'm a nurse, what do you want?"
Elisa got quiet and got a puzzled look on her face as her dad and I
giggled in the front seat.
Marilyn: One time I was trying to delay my son from nursing in a particular
situation. I asked him to wait until Grandma had gone. He looked at me with
a sad face and asked "can I just look at them then"?
Lucy Towbin, MSW, IBCLC
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 10:31:30 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Barb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Chicago Hope
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Anyone see the season finale of Chicago Hope last night? There was an
eight week old baby with a brain-stem tumor that was going into very
risky surgery to try to remove it. They closed a scene with the
parents having a private moment with the baby just before surgery. It
was shot through a glass window, as presumably they were holding her
inside one of the hospital's nurseries.
Just before the scene faded out, a nurse came up to the outside of the
window and picked something up and walked away. It was then I relized
there was a stack of Enfamil cans, on a shelf just outside the nursery,
in the center of the picture-- some with pink labels and some with
yellow labels. The nurse had picked up a can and left the scene. What
a subtle way to focus on the product. Was this coincidence or
intentional?
Barb Berges BS, RN, IBCLC
Rochester, New York
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 10:36:18 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Paul & Kathy Koch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Chicago Hope
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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> The nurse had picked up a can and left the scene. What
>a subtle way to focus on the product. Was this coincidence or
>intentional?
Intentional. I was not happy but my husband was amused at my indignation
and insisted that no-one but me would notice.
Kathy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kathy Koch, BSEd, IBCLC
Great Mills, MD
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 08:41:11 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: bclesperance <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Responses from mom & toddler
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Hi All,
Two points about posts:
I think we need to think about why we are putting posts on Lactnet. If I
thought that the comments that I wrote were being given to a mother, I
would not ever put a post on Lactnet. Someone puts a post on lactnet asking
for solutions/suggestions. Those on Lactnet graciously give of their time
and talent to respond with suggestions. It is the role of the LC to take
that information and use it judiciously depending upon the needs of their
individual mother...according to a specific plan of care that they have
developed because they know the mother and have all the data.
With regard to posts that may hurt the feelings of those who posts(LC's).
Yes, we should post professionally without direct attacks of persons.
However, I think that most people post this way. Because someone doesn't
agree with you should be OK! I think one of the values of Lactnet is that
we disagree and discuss. We don't have a lot of scientific data to support
our interventions with breastfeeding. Intellectual discussion can help us
all sort through and find truths.
IMHO!
Carol L'Esperance, RN, MSN, IBCLC, Albuquerque, NM
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 10:53:52 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Dr. Tom Hale" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Teeth Whiteners
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Re: Teeth Whiteners
Teeth Whiteners are carbamide peroxide, which is just a stabilized
formulation of hydrogen peroxide. When it touches tissue, it releases pure
hydrogen peroxide almost immediately.
Even is absorbed, tissue peroxidases would metabolize it in seconds.
Regards
Tom Hale, Ph.D.
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 10:53:08 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: The Baby Story
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I recently heard about this show. It's not suprising about the high tech
births being depicted as the norm. What I'm curious about is the depiction of
direct entry midwives and homebirth famies. Were they all peasant skirt
wearing hippies like in that book Midwives? I found that stereotype to be a
little obnoxious. I do own a peasant skirt or two but it came across as if
only radical hippies who paid only with barter had homebirths.
Curious,
Tracy Kirschner, DC
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 10:05:32 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Lucy Towbin <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: ADH
Subject: Side car cribs
Elisheva,
There are side-car type cribs you can buy now. They're advertised in
Mothering magazine and other publications. I made one (with some help) for
our third child, who was so active that he kept my husband asleep if he
slept between us (we just have a queen bed). I had an old wooden portacrib
someone had given me. I had a carpenter cut off the front side except for
reinforcement at mattress level. We pulled it up to the side of our bed
and attach it to the bed frame with c-clamps. When we need to move it to
change sheets, etc. it's easy to take the clamps off and then put them back
on. Hope that helps.
Sometimes it's actually been my husband who sleeps (partially) in the crib,
but that's another story! :-)
Lucy Towbin, MSW, IBCLC
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 08:26:41 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Donna Hansen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: inductions
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caol b. said:
<<and what really kills me about this is mothers being told "your baby is
37 and 5/7 weeks" but the ultrasound machine supposedly says on it "error
factor plus or minus one week - ten days" - is this true? i haven't seen
one lately. but how could it be more accurate than that, and basing
inductions on that sort of speculation is awful.>>
personal anecdote here: I had no period between baby #1 and baby # 2 (gotta
love that advantage of bf) so the only date my doctor had to go on was an
ultrasound done at about 11 weeks. Supposedly the sooner they are done the
less the margin of error, but it still could have been a week out. So at my
due date I was 4 -5 cm dilated and my doctor was a little worried, to say
the least. "Gee, Marie, 911 is only a few minutes away" did not reassure
her. I waited two weeks past my date, despite dire predictions of worse
outcomes the longer you went past your date, and comments of how rupturing
my membranes would most likely start labour. No thanks. Margaret was born
on her own choosing 2 weeks after due date, about a 1 1/2 hour labour
(right after a LLL meeting, too bad she couldn't have come a few hours
earlier!)
I never understand the urge for inductions just because the baby isn't
following some predetermined timeframe. It just seems to open the door to
all sorts of problems.
Donna Hansen
Burnaby, British Columbia
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:04:44 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Nice, Frank" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Teeth Whiteners
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I have not seen the background correspondence on this issue, but the use of
teeth whiteners is not a reason for concern for the breastfeeding mother nor a
reason to change her breastfeeding routine at all.
As I recall, teeth whiteners have been previously discussed on Lactnet.
Frank J. Nice, DPA, CPHP
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:29:55 EDT
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Those of you who sometimes testify in court on bf related matters may be
interested in these paragraphs from near the end of the New York Times
article today on Tabitha Walrond's conviction for negligent homicide in the
death of her baby.
The reporter interviewed the jurors after the verdict. All agreed that
significant blame went to the unresponsive hospital and to the grandmother,
who apparently kept reassuring the mom that the baby was fine.
"But in the end, she [the juror] concluded, Ms. Walrond should have
known better than to believe her mohter. Defense testimony from a
pediatrician who is a lactation expert in Colorado carried little weight with
the jury, she added, because the doctor had not spoken to the defendant and
had seen the autopsy photographs [in which apparently the child is horribly
emaciated] only the night before she testified.
"in his summatoin, Mr. Holdman ridiculed the defense medical experts,
saying of the defendants, "She could bring experts in from all over the
country, but she couldn't go a couple of blocks to a clinic?"
This reminds me that what many have written here about being sure that you
are speaking in a language and with an authority that your hearers can
understand applies not only to moms but to everybody -- in this case
including jurors. Showing up and talking without context just wasn't very
persuasive to them, no matter how much the expert knew about moms and babies
and feeding *in general*.
It's also interesting to me that the prosecutor went to great lengths to say
that this case was NOT about breastfeeding or "breastfeeding failure" -- and
I think that is largely to the credit of the folks, including a number of
lactnetters, who have been protesting outside the courthouse! -- but about
the mother's responsibility to, at a minimum, head for the emergency room
before the point at which the baby dies in the taxi.
And there is something to that, I guess -- but it still seems like a
prosecution that should never have been brought.
Elisheva Urbas, NYC
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:13:04 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Lucy Towbin <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: ADH
Subject: Breastfeeding Cult article
The article that was noted is by a woman who is very pro-breastfeeding.
She was talking about the Bottlefeeding Without Guilt book. She isn't the
author. She has a good article on the Ezzos that is useful in answering
people who are into the religious version of their philosophy.
-Lucy Towbin, MSW,IBCLC
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:26:45 -0400
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From: "Monroe A. Miller Jr." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: neurofibromatosis
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I briefly helped a mother with neurofibromatosis. She was able to get
the baby onto the breast soon after birth and bf well with only slight
adjustments in positioning. The tumors are on the areola and the
nipple, as well as other areas. I can't find any information about this
disease, hers is hereditary, and bf. My med-surg and pathophys books
don't have much and have nothing about bf (of course). I won't be able
to reply to any responses until Tuesday, but any info would be
appreciated.
TIA,
Becket Miller, RN,IBCLC
Boca Raton
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:28:44 EDT
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From: Elizabeth Steiner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: overwhelmed
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Going no mail for a while -- still trying to read lactnet from 5/10 (eek).
Feel free to mail me privately if desired.
Bye for now.
Elizabeth Steiner
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:40:16 EDT
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Subject: Nursing toddlers
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The other day, after nursing my one year old and three year old off and on
all day long, I told my three year old that she would have to wait a while to
nurse because "mama's nurses (her word) are sore." She looked at me and said,
"Well, I'll kiss them better for you and *then* I'll nurse."
She has also taken to dramatically putting her hands on her hips and
announcing that she will "simply *die* if she doesn't get some mama milk
*right now*.
Katie Allison Granju
http://www.attachmentparent.com/
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 16:53:57 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ABM reps in NHS Baby clinics
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi All,
>>It is my understanding that most ABM's are "adequate" nutritionally for
>>a 1mo (4wo) infant.
There are many different kinds of ABM, as you know, and some are most
definitely *not* suitable for very small babies. Follow-on milk is
designed as a supplement for older bottlefed babies on solids, and so
contains extra iron and higher levels of caseine and sodium. I have read
research that despite it being illegal to sell to babies under 6mo, and
despite clear labelling on the can (which is legally required), a huge
percentage of mothers put their babies on this formula as young as
possible, believing it is somehow a kind of "graduation". Some ill-
informed health-professionals are also suggesting breastfeeding mothers
use the stuff on breastfed babies over 6mo ("breastmilk has no iron",
you know :-^).
It is illegal for ABM companies to advertise standard ABM at all, so
instead, they heavily promote "Follow-on formula", even on TV, for *all*
6mo babies (despite the small print saying breast is best).
Consequently, I know many mothers who believe that their breastfed baby
needs Follow-on formula and it is frequently suggested to mothers as a
way of boosting a baby's iron intake. I had a health visitor suggest it
to me, when my first baby was not gaining well (a problem I now put down
to undiagnosed GER, foremilk-hindmilk imbalance and dairy allergies via
my diet).
> Disregarding the fact that we all know that is still
>>galaxies different than Human Milk, This may be why follow-up formula is
>>considered OK for 8wo babes.
Sorry not to make it clear - I assumed you have the same products in
USA. It should not be considered safe for an 8wo, and the fact that such
a statement went unchallenged by a health professional absolutely
horrifies me. They might as well encourage mothers to feed evaporated
milk with iron tablets!
The NHS is supposed to be promoting breastfeeding. As a public health
service, we cannot continue to pay the millions each year it costs to
treat ABM fed babies. The NHS is supposed to treat patients according to
need and be impartial - they are not supposed to be effectively
advertising Farley's or SMA! Reps should have *nothing* to do with the
patients - you don't get insulin reps sitting in diabetic clinics! It is
completely unethical for health professionals to be seen chatting to
formula reps and helping them hand out samples - it gives totally the
wrong impression. I'd bet you a pound to a penny that all the mothers
that gave up breastfeeding that week (and there will be a few, since the
breastfeeding support is so poor) will be using Farley's or SMA formula,
depending on which rep they spoke to. Two years ago, it was Milupa,
after a rep "got to" all the hospital staff and they started telling
women that Aptimil (their starter formula) was "almost as good as
breastmilk because it has the same long chain fatty acids.
I am just thankful my health visitor is the sort who is open to learning
and likes to make sure she gets her facts straight!
--
Anna H. (Mummy to Emma, 17-1-95, Alice, 11-9-96, Samuel, 25-4-98)
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 16:45:16 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Jane Hedges <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: teen breastfeeding stories
A while ago someone from lactnet e-mailed me the greatest story about
teaching a class in high school about Breastfeeding. A young Mom had come
with her baby and breastfed in the class. She was wearing a black bra and
tatoos! Unfortunatly...I lost the e-mail. If you sent this story to me
could you please forward it again. Also if anyone has a inspiring/cute
story about helping a teen with breastfeeding, I would love to hear it.
Thanks in advance to those who respond.
Jane Hedges, LLLC
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 16:46:43 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 19 May 1999 - Special issue (#1999-247)
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Good one, Rob!!! ;-)
Margie
<<Breastfeeding was to be sacrificed at the altar of ignorance, first church
of arrogance (unreformed).
However mom canceled the service as dad brought her the baby post op and she
breastfed. :-)
-Rob >>
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 17:02:48 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: suppliment protocol
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I recently wrote a supplementation protocol for my hospital.
It gives guidelines for term healthy newborn as to when to consider
supplementing.
I address the method of delivering the supplement but not the amount. I was
reling on the doctors descression but hint toward use of colostrum/D5W mix.
The guidelines don't really start until 24 hours based on the idea that term
newborns have fluid and energy stores.
Wasn't there an old custom of not feeding babies for 24 hours?
I don't have a lot of literature references in it b/c I couldn't find them
but am still looking. Fortunately a small hospital saying "Ruth Lawrence or
Nancy Wight or Jack Newman or Larry Gartner told me" is effective.
-Rob
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 16:54:05 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Pam Easterday <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Pediatrics article
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For Francoise, the Journal Of Pediatrics article on infant mortality due to
formula.
"Breastfeeding and health in the 1980's: A Global epidemiologic review"
Allen S. Cunningham, MD, Derrick B. Jelliffe, MD, and E.F. Patrice
Jelliffe, MPH
It says it was reproduced with permission of Mosby-Year Book, Inc.
It was in the Journal of Ped. Volume 118, Number 5, May 1991
La Leche League sold the reprint for awhile. That's where I bought it.
The article begins that EVERYONE knows that unsanitary bottle-feeding in the
Third World is deadly, we need to understand that formula is deadly
everywhere.
It gives various risks of formula for Egypt, Rwanda, England, USA (sudden
death and total infant mortality), Brazil, latin America, Malaysia,
Bangladesh.
It pays special attention to: Otitis media, Haemophilus influenzae
bacteremia, and meningitis, and respiratory infection.
Many thought the USA estimate of 4 per 1000 deaths from formula was
excessive. Other countries are estimated up to 290 per 1000. Consider all
the health care resources wasted in the USA to rescue the 286 infants in our
country that grow ill, but are saved by antibiotics etc. Hope this helps
folks find the piece. Pam Easterday [log in to unmask]
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 17:07:38 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Debra J. Berglund" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: teen breastfeeding stories
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Also if anyone has a inspiring/cute
>story about helping a teen with breastfeeding, I would love to hear it.
>
>I am a Pediatric Nurse Practitioner in a high school clinic. I do a lot of
pregnancy and STD counseling, among other things which don't give me a lot
of energy.
Yesterday, a 17 year old mother of a 10 month old made an appointment with
me to ask all kinds of breastfeeding questions related to her son (the
social worker referred her to me, knowing I am a LLLL and LC candidate).
They were just the kinds of things we talk about with mom's at meetings.
"How much should he be eating?" "He really doesn't drink much at day care
but nurses a lot at home, is this OK?" "How long should he nurse?" etc.
This young lady carried a Lactina around with her at school for a while
including carrying it on the bus!!! I told her how impressed I was with her
determination and what a lucky boy she had. You should have seen the smile
on BOTH our faces when that meeting was over.
Debbie Berglund
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 17:49:30 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: fever from not expressing milk
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Referring back to my altar of ignorance post and the mom who breastfed post
op even though her doc said not to in spite of me providing Ruth Lawrence's
text as a reference; I Emailed Ruth about this and she said good for the mom
and mentioned its also good she nursed and avoided a fever from not
expressing her milk.
I talked to Ruth today and asked her about this and she informed me that
protein involution in the milk not being expressed can cause a low grade
fever.
I never new this. Pretty interesting.
Good to learn something new everyday as Arthur Calabrese Ph.D., DO, MD (who
was board in 3 specialities) once told me.
-Rob
Rob Cordes, DO, FAAP, FACOP
Wilkes Barre PA
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 17:25:33 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Laura Wright <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Responses from Mom and Toddler
In-Reply-To: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>'s
message of Thu, 20 May 1999 14:29:13 -0400
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
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MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)
Carol L'Esperance commented that LC's should pass our suggestions (not
the website) as appropriate for the specific case, on to the
mothers..(sorry it's very difficult to cut and paste on webtv).
I agree, but I am not sure this specific issue has ever occured before.
This mother is an MD and certainly could have subscribed at any time
(although I believe she had some help finding us) I agree that she (the
mother) must understand exactly what we were originally told (maybe she
could check the archieves). But perhaps it should be a wake-up call to
us as well...Maybe we were a little openly harsh and hostile in regards
to this situation.
Laura Wright
Eschew Obfuscation!
"A newborn baby has only three demands. They are warmth in the arms of
its mother, food from her breasts, and security in the knowledge of her
presence. Breastfeeding satisfies all three." ~ Dr. Grantly Dick-Read
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 18:30:53 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: neurofibromatosis
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I also have a client with this condition. Baby is presently 3 mo. old and
although the mother does have tumors on her areola in addition to elsewhere
they have not interfered with nursing . I was unable to find any info on
nursing with this condition also but fiqured that by the time I first saw
this mom at 1 week postpartum her ped already knew about the condition and
was letting her nurse in the hospital prior to discharge so who was I to
interfere. This baby nurses beautifully and even does so with a small tumor
in her right nostril on the mom's right breast. The mother has never
questioned this and it's not bothering the baby one bit. If there's no
problem why intervene?
Kristine Hynes RN,BSN,IBCLC
Palos Park, IL USA
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 17:38:40 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Laura Wright <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Baby Story
In-Reply-To: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>'s
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No, Tracey, They do show normal women as midwives. Unfortunately I have
never seen an epsode in which a home birth actually takes place. The
three stories I have seen all involve "want-to-be" homebirths who end up
rushing to hospital for c-section. I watch it occaisionally, until the
"Where's my epidural!" grates on my nreves. However, I am grateful that
through watching this show my mother has come to the realization that
even "homebirth" moms who experience difficulties can go to hospital.
IMHO, if the problem is so emergent that Mom can not get to help, it
probably wouldn't have done any good to be at hospital in the first
place. (How many of you had to call your Dr in from his Golf game to
catch the baby, and had nurses forceably holding baby in until he
arrived?)
I would really like it if one in four of the births they show were
succesful home births.
But, we digress, I have NEVER seen any of these mothers BREASTFEED!,
even the ones who attempted homebirth. I find this very
odd...considering they are showing births, are breasts so very
controversial?
Personally I would BF for a camera crew anyday, but I would NEVER have
one at my delivery. :)
Laura Wright
Eschew Obfuscation!
"A newborn baby has only three demands. They are warmth in the arms of
its mother, food from her breasts, and security in the knowledge of her
presence. Breastfeeding satisfies all three." ~ Dr. Grantly Dick-Read
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 11:54:55 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Barbara Wilson-Clay <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: borrowing friend's pump
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What bothered me about the situation Barb Whitehead posted is the remark
that the mom was borrowing a friend's pump. Pumps are personal hygiene
items designed for single user use due to the potential for cross-infection.
Rental grade pumps have safety features in terms of either filters which
switch off the pump if milk backs up into the tubing, or they have contained
kits which don't allow milk to escape up into the motor.
The issue with other pumps (ie purchasable ones) is that the motors cannot
be sterilized. There is a theoretical possibility that when milk hits the
bottom of the collection bottle an aresol mist from the splash will contain
small viral particles which will be inhaled by the pump and sucked up into
the motor compartment. Even if a mother sanitizes the bottle and flange,
she generally doesn't take apart the motor casing and spray it down with
antiseptic. It is the potential that aspirated viral particles may be blown
back down to re-seed another mothers milk which makes this a risky practice.
If you don't believe that milk is aspirated up into these motors, just find
one which has been in use for a while and take it apart. I've done this at
the advice of the Mag-Mag people when a woman came in with one of their
pumps which wouldn't work. I called the cust. serv. # and they said take it
apart and wash out all the crud. It was pretty disgusting.
I cring when I hear women are sharing pumps, or have purchased on second
hand.
Barbara Wilson-Clay, BSEd, IBCLC
Austin Lactation Associates, Austin, Texas
http://www.jump.net/~bwc/lactnews.html
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 19:33:21 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Cindy Curtis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: No Discrimination Found in Lack of Privacy for Use of Breast Pump
Comments: To: LACTIVIST POST <[log in to unmask]>
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No Discrimination Found in Lack of Privacy for Use of Breast Pump
New York Law Journal
May 20, 1999
BY DEBORAH PINES
http://www.nylj.com/stories/99/05/052099a4.htm
CLAIMS THAT an employer failed to accommodate adequately a new mother's
desire to pump breast milk on the job are not covered by either federal
gender or disability discrimination laws, a federal judge in Manhattan ruled
yesterday.
Joining a handful of other courts that have considered the question,
Southern District Judge Lewis A. Kaplan dismissed a suit by Alicia Martinez,
a cable television producer, who said her former employer, MSNBC Cable,
failed in 1997 to provide her with a sufficiently private spot to pump
breast milk during work breaks.
Because being a nursing mother is no disability, and because Ms. Martinez
fails to allege she was "treated differently than similarly situated men,"
her claims are not covered by either the Americans with Disabilities Act
(ADA) or Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Judge Kaplan wrote.
Ms. Martinez, of West Orange, N.J., who now has a part-time job working as a
television producer, plans to appeal, said her lawyer Robert Swetnick. He
said the ruling was erroneous in several respects including its "highly
restrictive reading of Title VII."
Susan Weiner, a lawyer for MSNBC, meanwhile, said the ruling for recognized
that "MSNBC had neither discriminated nor retaliated against Ms. Martinez."
She noted that the judge found Ms. Martinez was not barred from pumping
breast milk, but had rejected several locations MSNBC offered for that
purpose.
Ms. Martinez filed suit last year against MSNBC, a 24-hour-a-day cable
television network for whom she worked as a producer between May 1996 and
December 1997. After returning from a maternity leave in March 1997, she
claimed, she was denied a "safe, secure, sanitary and private" spot to pump
breast milk for her newborn son, and was harassed for complaining.
No Protected Status
Judge Kaplan's ruling, in Martinez v. NBC, Inc. and MSNBC, 98 Civ. 4842,
granted summary judgment to the cable network. As a preliminary matter, he
noted that the court is not being asked whether legislation should be passed
requiring that employers afford reasonable accommodation to women
breast-feeding or breast pumping.
"That determination is not for the court," Judge Kaplan wrote, noting his
task is simply "to determine whether the ADA so provides.... It does not."
Judge Kaplan cited one district court ruling within the Second Circuit that
called it "simply preposterous to contend a woman's body is functioning
abnormally because she is lactating."
Judge Kaplan next found Ms. Martinez's claims also are not covered by Title
VII. "The drawing of distinctions among persons of one gender on the basis
of criteria that are immaterial to the other, while in given cases perhaps
deplorable, is not the sort of behavior covered by Title VII," he wrote.
He also rejected a Title VII claim based on a theory of "sex plus"
discrimination, which covers people subjected to disparate treatment based
not only on sex, but on sex considered in conjunction with a second
characteristic.
"To allow a claim based on sex-plus discrimination here would elevate breast
milk pumping -- alone -- to a protected status," Judge Kaplan wrote. "But if
breast pumping is to be afforded protected status, it is Congress alone that
may do so."
In a statement provided by her attorney, Ms. Martinez yesterday said Judge
Kaplan's ruling makes the fight for suitable workplace accommodations for
breast-feeding women "a lot harder."
In addition to Ms. Weiner, Brande Stellings, of the cable network, also
represented the National Broadcasting Company Inc. and MSNBC Cable LLC.
Cindy Curtis,RN,IBCLC
mailto:[log in to unmask]
http://www.erols.com/cindyrn
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 19:31:22 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Johanna Berger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: LC in Northridge, CA
Looking for LC, preferably at Northridge Hosp., in Northridge, CA. Also
need LLLL and pump rental/sales in area. Please e-mail privately.
TIA
Johanna Berger, LSW
Breastfeeding Counselor
Bala Cynwyd, PA
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 19:47:41 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Alicia Dermer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Exposure of breastfed infants to nicotine
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi, 'netters: Pardon me if anyone has posted on this. I've been nomail
and have not had a chance to see whether or not this has been discussed.
Recently, someone posted about an article showing a higher level of
cotinine (metabolite of nicotine) in the urine of breastfed babies of
smoking mothers than the urine of bottle-fed babies of smoking mothers.
The authors concluded that this increased amount of nicotine in
breastfed babies of smoking mothers could be a significant public
health problem. Of course, I went right to the article itself, and here
is what I found:
Mascola MA, Van Vunakis H, Tager IB, Speizer FE, Hanrahan JP. Exposure of
young infants to environmental tobacco smoke: breast-feeding among smoking
mothers.
The authors used 330 mother-infant pairs enrolled in "a longitudinal study
of the effects of prenatal and postnatal smoking on the pulmonary function
and respiratory illness experience of infants and children." They defined
smoking mothers as those who reported smoking at least 1 cigarette per day
at the time of the visit or those whose urinine cotinine level was over a
level that could be from environmental tobacco smoke exposure alone.
Breastfeeding was not separated between exclusive and partial.
Here are some of the infant urine cotinine levels:
Non-smoker, bottle-feeding, total -- 60 (interquartile range 22-140)
" " " , other smokers in the home -- 127 (47-263)
" " " , no other smokers in home -- 42 (18-125)
Non-smoker, breastfeeding, total -- 50 (29-98)
" " , other smokers in home -- 65 (39-194)
" " , no other smokers in home -- 41 (13-74)
Smoker, bottle-feeding, total -- 361 (239-593)
" " " , other smokers --464 (291-619)
" " " , no other smokers -- 250 (167-400)
Smoker, breastfeeding, total -- 4207 (1350-4700)
" " , other smokers -- 4207 (1740-4667)
" " , no other smokers -- 3025 (1333-4796)
Of interest, the differences between levels in babies whose mothers didn't
smoke and those who did were significant regardless of whether the mothers
breast- or bottle-fed. In babies of non-smoking mothers, there was no
significant difference in the levels unless other smokers were in the home
(both breast- and bottle-fed babies of nonsmoking mothers had
significantly higher levels if there were other smokers in the home). In
the groups with smoking mothers, neither breast- nor bottle-fed babies had
significantly higher levels if there were other smokers in the home.
They further looked at the infants' levels dependent on whether mother
smoked in the same room or not:
Type of feeding Mother smoked in the room Mother didn't smoke in room
bottle 413 (280-608) 350 (239-486)
breast 4667 (1740-4797) 2018 (1038-4207)
These differences were not significant in either group.
Clearly, there is a significant difference between the nicotine levels in
babies whose smoking mothers breastfed and those whose smoking mothers
bottle-fed. The clinical significance of this finding is very difficult
to determine, because *they only had 13 breastfeeding smoking mothers*,
and because there are no data about the incidence of respiratory
infections or other clinical data about the babies.
I find it a ridiculous leap from their data to the concluding statement of
their article: "In summary, we found that infants of smoking mothers have
significantly more exposure to the products of tobacco smoke than do
infants whose mothers do not smoke and that breast-feeding dramatically
increases this exposure. It is possible that adverse health consequences
in children previously attributed only to environmental tobacco smoke
exposure by inhalation may also result from exposure to both environmental
tobacco smoke and the breast milk of smoking mothers. [With only 13
babies out of 330 and no data as to whether these babies actually have
more respiratory or other illnesses than their environmentally exposed
bottle-fed counterparts, I think that they are on very shaky ground with
this statement] The relative importance of inhalational environmental
tobacco smoke exposure vs ingestion via breast milk in predicting
respiratory illness and other conditions in infants associated with
early-life smoking exposure is an important public health issue that
merits further exploration. [Considering the relatively minute number of
breastfeeding mothers who smoke, I wonder why that particular issue is of
such importance in public health, although I do agree that it merits
further exploration -- I would suggest actual clinical evaluation of
outcomes such as respiratory illnesses, etc] Health care providers need
to be as diligent in encouraging mothers to stop smoking after birth as in
the prenatal period [AMEN!], especially those mothers who intend to
breast-feed, and those mothers unable to stop smoking should be informed
of the possibility that harmful chemicals derived from tobacco smoke may
be transmitted to their infants via breast milk [of course, the many vital
immunoprotective substances in human milk are not considered, nor are the
potentially harmful chemicals of formula].
IMNSHO, this is another example of researchers far exceeding the scope of
their data in forming conclusions that can be used to make clinical
decisions. Although it's important to look at the nicotine levels in
breastfed babies, it's more important to look at their health outcomes
before making such sweeping statements. It's sad to think that some
smoking mothers will be told they must not breastfeed as a result of this.
Regards, Alicia Dermer, MD, IBCLC, in Central New Jersey, USA.
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 16:59:31 PDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Fookkong Fok <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Colostrum supplements
Comments: cc: [log in to unmask]
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Hi lactnetters,
Regarding colostrum supplements- I remember Dr. Jelliffe when he was here in
Singapore in 1990, and rushing to the health food store to pick up the
colostrum supplements for him. He was curious as to whether this
supplements really worked. We were both amazed at the kind of things that
people use to pass off as health remedies. Apparently this are just
supplements- no real studies have been done. Dr. Jelliffe wanted to do a
study on colostrum and we were talking about it until his sudden death the
following year. Any one doing any colostrum study? I'll be interested.
Doris Fok, IBCLC in private practice in Singapore (65)2513116
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:38:59 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Querida David <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Teeth Whiteners
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>Teeth Whiteners are carbamide peroxide, which is just a stabilized
>formulation of hydrogen peroxide. When it touches tissue, it releases pure
>hydrogen peroxide almost immediately.
>Even if absorbed, tissue peroxidases would metabolize it in seconds.
>Regards
>Tom Hale, Ph.D.
Darnit Tom, you spoiled all the fun! I was hoping that nursing mothers would
have to avoid all bleaches and never have to clean the bathroom or kitchen
again - can't wash the nappies either! I thought it would have been a good
'selling point' for breastfeeding.
tongue firmly in cheek
Querida
Querida David IBCLC
GL, NT Correspondence Group
Alyangula. NT. Australia
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 20:32:53 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Subject: Peds journals
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Hi all,
Many recent posts to Lactnet have mentioned articles published in pediatric
journals.
A point of clarification about the journals:
There is both a journal PEDIATRICS and the JOURNAL OF PEDIATRICS (not
shouting, just emphasizing). Pediatrics is published by the American Academy
of Pediatrics. It was the journal with the article on infant suffocation in
the May issue. The Journal of Pediatrics is the journal with the article by
Cunningham, Jelliffe and Jelliffe that Francois wanted to find and Pam
Easterday provided the reference for. The Journal of Pediatrics is
abbreviated "J Pediatr" in bibliographies and on Medline.
It's just a little thing, but this might help in looking up references.
Warmly,
Carol Kelley LLLL
Taylors SC USA
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 18:56:40 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Deanne Francis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Article and Mastectomy
Nope, these two things are not related.
I hope everybody saw the article in the April 1999 issue of Pediatrics (vol
103 No. 4) entitled Health Care Costs of Formula-Feeding in the First Year
of Life. If somebody mentioned it, I am sorry, but really behind in reading
the digests.
I saw a really interesting mom this morning. She was diagnosed with breast
cancer shortly after her first baby was born and had a mastectomy. She has
now had baby #2 and is doing well breastfeeding on the remaining breast.
She should continue to do well, if I can just keep the nurses and her doctor
from suggesting she "finish with formula just in case" We'll see.
Deanne
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 20:43:05 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Update to Cunningham and Jelliffe/Jelliffe
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>"Breastfeeding and health in the 1980's: A Global epidemiologic review"
>Allen S. Cunningham, MD, Derrick B. Jelliffe, MD, and E.F. Patrice
>Jelliffe, MPH
Allan Cunningham did an update of this piece in 1995 -- it's published in
the book Breastfeeding: Biocultural Perspectives, edited by Patrician
Stuart-Macadam and myself.
Kathy D.
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 23:15:00 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Walroun verdict
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This verdict makes me very sad. the coverage will be very damaging. The
saddest part is that moms with new babies do not have a fail safe way to
have baby checked after discharge. ALL babies born in the US should be
automatically covered (insurance wise) by something, pending parent's
insurance going into effect. It just shouldn't be so hard for a newborn to
be checked.
Every hospital that delivers babies should have the drop-in type facility
that Evergreen Hospital has. Baby is checked by a nurse familiar with
newborns and weighed. That should be a basic provision everywhere. if
this was cost prohibitive at some smaller hospitals then babies should be
welcomed back to the nursery or peds dept. for weight checks and a quick
once over. After all hospitals have scales and are open 24 hours a day.
This is not rocket science folks, weighing and assessing a baby is too
important to let it slip through the bureaucratic cracks. Sincerely, Pat
in SNJ
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 23:36:22 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 20 May 1999 - Special issue (#1999-255)
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In a message dated 5/20/99 7:11:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< What bothered me about the situation Barb Whitehead posted is the remark
that the mom was borrowing a friend's pump. Pumps are personal hygiene
items designed for single user use due to the potential for cross-infection.
Rental grade pumps have safety features in terms of either filters which
switch off the pump if milk backs up into the tubing, or they have contained
kits which don't allow milk to escape up into the motor. >>
Just to clarify, when I sold this pump ( PNS) originally, I told this ( about
the single consumer use only) to the Mom. I tell all moms purchasing a pump
this. I guess they don't consider friends to be sources of contamination.
Barbara Whitehead, IBCLC ( who has had an absolutely horrible day, complete
with a bounced check (my fault), my daughter at college not getting financial
aid she was counting on, my son's car window falling out, and 5 Bfing
counseling calls!).
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 22:51:23 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Susan R Potts <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: First 24 hour npo
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Dear Rob and all,
I worked in a small town in a small hospital as a graduate nurse in
1979-80 with 4 GP docs and the standing orders in the nursery was for
every baby to be npo X 24 hours. I didn't know any better and the babies
were all fine. Normal, term babies have fat and fluid stores on board.
Sometimes I use this story for teaching parents when they are concerned
"if the baby is getting enough", also that pregnant women start making
colostrum during the 2nd trimester.
Also, as a pp staff nurse for many years, it was common knowledge
among us that moms could/would have a slightly elevated temperature when
the "milk came in" or if a mom became engorged. But now I know why from
your info from Dr. Ruth (Lawrence).
BTW Congratulations on the new addition to your family. We enjoyed
each baby a little bit more because there were more of us to enjoy the
baby! Though the noise levels, mess, and laundry increase, so does the
love. And the toys are already out, I didn't have to look for things to
amuse the baby!
Susan Potts rn ibclc Minnesota
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 23:50:28 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Jones Family <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Engorgement and public domain breastfeeding literature
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The reason for my recent engorgement questions is that our local
breastfeeding group is working on selecting, writing, and/or revising
materials that we can send to doctors to copy and give to their
patients. We would like to keep them at about 6th grade level and
provide some illustrations (probably line drawings) as appropriate. The
questions that I asked are a result of this project.
Thanks to those who have answered. I thought I should clarify as some
of the answers are more detailed that what we would put in the handout.
We plan to make the handouts fairly basic and to include phone numbers
and an internet site where they can get additional information.
Topics we are starting with include preparing to breastfeed,
breastfeeding a newborn, breastfeeding an older baby, nutition and
fluids for the nursing mother, medications and breastfeeding,
breastfeeding if mom is sick, preventing and treating breastfeeding
problems (that's where engorgement comes in), growth patterns of the
breastfed infant, how breastfeeding benefits mothers, breastfeeding and
returning to work, the father's role in the breastfeeding family, and
siblings of the breastfed baby. We also plan to prepare a list of web
sites on breastfeeding.
If anyone has materials meeting these criteria that are uncopyrighted or
which we could use with permission and attribution, please let me know.
Please specify whether additional permission is needed and from whom and
whether the materials may be modified.
Please respond privately as well as to the list. TIA.
Bonnie Jones, RN, ICCE, IBCLC from the sunny S.W. USA
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 04:49:23 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Kermaline J Cotterman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Labor induction by breastpump
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
<Is it remotely possible that Barbara's mother-to-be (the one who rented
a
breastpump prenatally to "deal with engorgement" ) was actually planning
to
use the pump to induce labor?>
Each of my daughters was well over 2 weeks overdue and each very
obviously carrying a large baby, one 17 years ago, and one 9 years ago.
I was familiar with the article about the Israeli research with inducing
labor in grand multiparae with a breast pump. As a CB educator and OB
nurse, I was also familiar with the not-so-joyous rigors of pitocin
induction, especially as it was then practiced in our hospital.
I had "connections" whereby I could obtain a good electric breastpump. I
gave my eldest daughter the induction article to read, and let her make
her own decision as to whether she wanted to give it a try. When it was
my youngest daughter's turn, her sister simply told her of her experience
of trying to induce labor.
Though each probably ripened her cervix quite a bit during the hours
using the pump in the manner described in the article, each ultimately
required pitocin augmentation or several attempts at induction. Each
eventually had a C.Section for "failure to progress" in 18+ hours of
labor, and each had a baby over 9 #. I was there for both labors and
C.S's, and I am convinced that they received excellent care and the
longest possible trial consistent with the safety of the baby. In
retrospect, perhaps too long.
But the good news is that both of them had the same fortunate results
mentioned in the Israeli study-"an early and copious milk supply with
little or no engorgement", (and virtually no nipple tenderness.)
Due to bilateral collapsed lungs, my youngest grandson was transferred to
the local children's hospital within 12 hours. The morning of my
daughter's 3rd day postpartum, when I arrived to visit, she handed me
FOUR 45 cc. volufeeds full of colostrum/transitional milk to take to him,
and asked me "Mom, do you think this will be enough?"
By the time she was released on her fifth day, he was in an open crib
with all tubes, etc. out, and ready to spend the day with her in the
comfy privacy of the special small breastfeeding lounge, and to go home
the next day.
In my experience observing the outcome as a grandmother, this would not
be such a bad idea to be considered more often, perhaps offered routinely
by the obstetrician as a starting option. Is this now being done
anywhere? If so, regardless of whether it induces labor without further
intervention, is anyone noting a better effect on early breastfeeding
than that of multiple IV's/pitocin?
K. Jean Cotterman RNC, IBCLC
Dayton, Ohio
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 11:09:47 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Growing Families International
Comments: To: LACTNET Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>,
Lactivist Breastfeeding Campaigners List <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Hi All,
I need as much information as I can get and professional opinions on the
"Growing Families International" organisation, founded by the Ezzo's.
I have information that they intend to come to UK. I need to know a date
and a venue. Does anyone know? I can't phone them as it's too expensive.
I have a couple of articles on GFI and an outline of the basics of their
philosophy, but I need more details to pass on to a UK children's
organisation. TIA.
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 23:50:15 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Steve Salop and Judith Gelman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: colostrum-incident report
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Dear Lactnuts--
A dear friend of mine with severe colitis has been off dairy and gluten
for about a year. She has been symptom free for about 6 months On the
advice of her nutritionist, she started cow colostrum supplements last
week. Within the day, she had the most severe symptoms she had ever
had--cramping, diarrhea, bleeding, etc. She told me about it because she
was unable to leave the house for even an hour for a previously
scheduled meeting.
Of course not everyone would have such a violent reaction--in fact most
people can drink cow milk and be just fine. But this is being touted as
a way for people to build up their immune systems, so it is being
targetted at a vulnerable population.
I note my friend's severe reaction because I think it highly likely that
had she been brestfeeding a cow's milk sensitive baby, the baby would
have reacted too. Of course this is speculation--but my own daughter
reacted if I ate tuna with casein as about the tenth ingredient, so I
know how sensitive dairy-sensitive babies can be to even tiny amounts of
dairy in their mothers' diets. We all need to be aware that this new
source of dairy is out on the market and being taking by people who may
not think of this when we question their diet.
Whatever else cow colostrum may do or not do, this is an intense dose of
bovine proteins. What else could cow colostrum possibly be? I am sure
it can help those who have a medical need for bovine proteins. FOr the
rest of us, I don;t have an inkling of what benefits it may have.
Warmly--
Judy Gelman
Washington, DC
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 07:01:35 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "joanne c. booth" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: I want to get back to "digest" vs. regular individual messages
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Anyway, I've tried twice, and cannot revert off regular
listings. I cannot receive 108 individual messages in
one day! You can tell I'm still new to this listserve
and am still trying to figure out the command process.
In fact, I'm one who tried to go nomail until I figured
this out and ended up off the list!
Please tell me what to do that works, or I'll have to
drop the subscription altogether.
Thanks
Joanne Booth
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 08:58:52 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: colostrum-incident report
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Dear Judy, what a shame. I'd lose a lot of faith in my "nutritionist" if
that happened to me. What was the nutritionist thinking of, giving dairy
to someone who is clearly dairy intolerant! I hope she can get back to her
symptom free state ASAP. Maybe some real human colostrum would help if she
could find a donor. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:54:24 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: jackie <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: milk blebs
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Hi All,
I have searched the archives and found mention of milk blebs but not what
the best treatment would be. I would appreciate any help you can give me.
I am not seeing the mother but was consulted by her family practice doc and
want to give as complete a treatment plan as possible. At this point I am
just going by his description but am also trying to get her to call me about
this. TIA for your help.
Sincerely,
Jackie Proko
mail to: [log in to unmask]
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:34:47 +0000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: J Martin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Baby Story
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Greetings Lactnetters:
I've come in on the end of this so I hope I'm talking about the same program. I
have seen a few of these episodes and one of them was a homebirth.
Grandparents, in-laws, children (4 of theme), ex-in-laws as well as friends.
In this particular episode the baby was born underwater in the bathtub/jacuzzi.
No breastfeeding was shown. Interesting.
Jahaan Martin MEd, IBCLC
ABQ, NM
WBW '99 August 1-7 Education for Life
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:59:06 +0000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: J Martin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: teenagers breastfeeding
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Greeting Lactnetters:
I'm not sure if we're only sharing happy stories, but this one is worth a
listen, I think.
I provided breastfeeding classes, information and support for many years in a
home for pregnant and parenting teens. Some of the young ladies were
exclusively breastfeeding, some combining abm and breastfeeding and a few were
artificially feeding.
One of the babies died during the night. This sweet little boy was both
breastfed and artificially fed. His death was ruled a SIDS death. I came in
the next morning to helpout. The girls and I talked and cried for hours about
what happened.
Every young woman in the room (except for those artificially feeding) was
breastfeeding her baby and declared their intention to continue to only
breastfeed. They all expressed fear and sadness over the death of their
housemates baby and wanted to do whatever they could to avoid the same thing
happening to their babies.
Jahaan Martin MEd, IBCLC
ABQ, NM USA
WBW '99 August 1-7 Breastfeeding Eduacation for Life
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 11:40:17 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: whiteners
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In a message dated 5/20/99 10:19:24 PM Central Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<<
Darnit Tom, you spoiled all the fun! I was hoping that nursing mothers would
have to avoid all bleaches and never have to clean the bathroom or kitchen
again - can't wash the nappies either! I thought it would have been a good
'selling point' for breastfeeding.
tongue firmly in cheek
Querida:
does this mean that husb ands are offering to take over these chores to
protect their bf wives from exposure? ;)
Patricia
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 10:19:44 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Kate Hallberg <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Fwd: fyi - estrogen from baby bottles
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My dh sent this... interesting for those of us who are
questioned as to the toxic load of mother's milk.
Note: forwarded message attached.
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 23:09:53 -0600 (MDT)
From: Dirk Grunwald <[log in to unmask]>
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To: Kate Hallberg <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: fyi - estrogen from baby bottles
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Organization: University of Colorado
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WASHINGTON, May 12 (UPI) -- A dozen consumer and health groups are
warning parents that clear plastic baby bottles leach a potentially
harmful chemical into a baby's formula, a claim the plastics industry
quickly dismissed as a scare tactic lacking scientific basis.
Led by the National Environmental Trust, the groups asked the Food
and Drug Administration and baby bottle manufacturers today to remove
from the polycarbonate plastic a synthetic chemical, bisphenol-A, that
acts like an estrogen in the body.
They want manufacturers to place warning labels on bottles and they
called for additional study on the leaching of BPA at lower temperatures
and the chemical's impact on children.
They said research by Dr. Frederick vom Saal of the University of
Missouri shows BPA has an endocrine disrupter effect and causes changes
in the reproductive systems of mice, turtles and other test animals but
there is no link to humans and there is no evidence of any harm the
changes may have caused in the test animals.
``In the absence of information, as a parent myself, I just want to
be cautious,'' vom Saal said at today's the briefing.
He added his research on 100 mice showed BPA caused a decline in
sperm production, a decrease in the size of the seminal vesicle and a
tendency for the prostate to enlarge. He said he found while BPA cleared
the system of adult mice, it ``hangs around in the fetus'' of pregnant
mice, raising questions about the impact of prolonged exposure.
``Where children are concerned, we don't subject them to risks we
don't understand,'' said Philip Clapp, NET president. ``We have no way
of knowing the subtle ways that an artificial hormone-like substance,
like bisphenol-A, can interfere with the development.''
Among those groups joining NET in petitioning the FDA are the
Children's Defense Fund, Children's Health Environment Coalition,
Consumer Federation of America, National Council of Catholic Women,
Physicians for Social Responsibility and the U.S. Public Interest
Research Group.
BPA has been around since the 1930s and gained a prominent place in
the plastics industry in the 1950s, when plastics became all the rage.
Plastic baby bottles that contain BPA make up about 90 percent of the
baby bottle market.
While there is agreement on both sides that BPA leaks into formula or
milk in the bottle when it's heated at high temperatures, vom Saal said
more study is needed on the human impact and on early evidence that
suggests leaching occurs at low heating.
``It's been very frustrating'' vom Saal said of efforts to get the
plastics industry to pay attention to the BPA issue. But he added,
``because it's been around for decades and controls the market'' it is
difficult to get changes made.
``There is absolutely no evidence of adverse affects in humans,''
said Susan Moore, of the American Plastics Council. ``The FDA is quite
comfortable with 40 years of research.''
Clapp said the FDA has not moved to restrict BPA because its
regulatory approach lags behind the emerging science on the effects
chemicals have on the endocrine system.
Dr. John Heinze, an environmental and health scientist for the
American Plastics Council, said they tried with 200 mice to replicate
vom Saal's studies but were unsuccessful. He said their research showed
leaching but found no effects from it.
``No more research needs to be done,'' Heinze said. ``What we have
here is a scientific anomaly.''
Dr. Michael Goodman, a board-certified pediatrician in Washington and
a researcher, said he has never found any evidence that BPA is harmful
to children.
``There is no human data that even suggests that,'' Goodman said.
Moore called NET's action and vom Saal's support of it ``creating a
scare to create a demand for more research'' and alleged that vom Saal
regularly promotes his research publicly in an effort to gain notoriety
and additional funding.
``It's the scare of the week,'' Moore said.
The NET also noted the May issue of Consumer Reports also warns
parents of the potential risk of a problem with leaching.
Dr. Edward Groth, the biologist who led the Consumer Reports testing,
said its testing of six brands of baby bottles found leaching at varying
levels but the report clearly stated it did not know whether the risk
was significant. The American Plastics Council and Avent America, a
manufacturer, have questioned the Consumer Reports story and the APC has
asked for a retraction.
``We're not going to retract,'' Groth told United Press
International. ``We have no idea what is a safe level of exposure or if
there is any risk associated with exposure. We believe many parents
would rather play it safe.''
Clapp said parents have alternatives to the clear polycarbonate
bottles. There are manufacturers that make colored, cloudy plastic
bottles that do not contain BPA and glass bottles also are free of the
chemical. He recommends throwing out any bottles that are visibly worn
or scratched.
In a new study by Dr. Koji Arizono from the Prefectural University of
Kumamoto and the Univeristy of Nagasaki, researchers were able to show
that worn, scratched bottles leached up to twice as much BPA as new
bottles. Arizono's report confirmed leaching at high temperatures but
also found leaching at temperatures as low as 60 degrees Celsius (140F).
--0-1804289383-927307184=:14474--
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 13:26:04 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Cow colostrum
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Judy says,
<< Whatever else cow colostrum may do or not do, this is an intense dose of
bovine proteins. What else could cow colostrum possibly be? I am sure
it can help those who have a medical need for bovine proteins. FOr the
rest of us, I don;t have an inkling of what benefits it may have. >>
Well it is obvious that it will protect us adults from whatever diseases
afflict cows.
Jan
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 13:51:56 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Tabitha Walrond Story in Today's Salon Magazine
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Today's Salon had an article on this case called "Nursed to Death"!!! What a
headline!
http://www.salonmagazine.com/mwt/feature/1999/05/21/nursing/index.html
Ruth Scuderi
Westfield, MA
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 11:08:42 PDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: laurie wheeler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: letter to the editor on weaning
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Baby Magazine
A friend sent me your article "It's time! The when and how of weaning baby (April, p. 40)." It ruined my day.
I hope your article did not reflect the attitudes of most mothers. How sad that would be. Where is the joy in their mothering? I did not see it in this article.
There was a description of how one mother was "tired of wearing nursing bras to bed...tired of the whole process" and "bored with breastfeeding." Surely this is not a reason to wean. I sometimes got tired of brushing my children's teeth or washing their hair, but I did not stop doing it just because I was tired of it. Why? Because I knew that I was doing it for their health and that they still needed me to do it. I was tired of being pregnant too - both times - by about the 7th month in the hot New Orleans summer. I did not decide to induce premature labor to get it over with!
The author states that a husband may feel that "your breasts have become baby's, rather than his." No husband of mine! Duh? What are breasts (mammary glands) for anyway? Why would a husband want to take that away from his child? My, my, if he wants to fondle them, they haven't disappeared.
Later I read that "nursing past the 12 to 15 month mark makes a child overly dependent or demanding of Mom, and vice versa." Where did you get this? There is no evidence that this is true. And in fact there is lots of evidence to show harm by weaning that early.
Having babies and raising them is not easy. But, I am so happy that I experienced the joys of breastfeeding and had many contacts with others who did so as well. I would like to suggest that breastfeeding moms feeling sore, tired, or bored hook up with another nursing mom, a support group like La Leche League, or a lactation consultant in their area.
Laurie Wheeler, RN, MN, IBCLC
Lactation consultant
Louisiana Breastfeeding MediaWatch Campaign
mailto:[log in to unmask]
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:17:11 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Baby Story
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In a message dated 5/20/99 7:10:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< No, Tracey, They do show normal women as midwives. Unfortunately I have
never seen an epsode in which a home birth actually takes place. The
three stories I have seen all involve "want-to-be" homebirths who end up
rushing to hospital for c-section. I watch it occaisionally, until the
"Where's my epidural!" grates on my nreves. >>
I have seen two succesful homebirths on that show, but most of them make me
shout at the tv. I am also a childbirth educator and doula, and I end up
getting so upset watching all those women with all those unnecessary
interventions. Makes my blood boil. And I am always looking to see if there
are any bottles in the background at the postpartum segment, and only once
did I see a baby being bottle fed. I've heard some of the women make mention
of nursing, but I really wish it would be shown (discreetly, of course.
Kim Sherwood, LLLL, ACLA
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 11:25:21 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Chris Hafner-Eaton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: private email
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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In case you haven't guessed by my lack of commentary, I am no mail (still
recovering from the huge surgical abscess in my abdomen). However, I am
available via email and will do my best to answer you promptly. I miss all
of your insightful comments, but have to limit my computer time to helping
my on-line students and individual LC cases right now (in addition to
nursing my 1 13 mo old and homeschooling my older two).
Chris
Chris Hafner-Eaton, PhD, MPH, CHES, IBCLC email: [log in to unmask]
HSR & Health Educational Consultant
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:34:04 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Janice Berry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Tabitha Walrond Story in Today's Salon Magazine
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Ruth Scuderi wrote:
> Today's Salon had an article on this case called "Nursed to Death"!!!
What a
> headline!
>
> http://www.salonmagazine.com/mwt/feature/1999/05/21/nursing/index.html
IMO, it's time for us to mount a letter-writing campaign to Salon. Their
coverage of breastfeeding has been simply appalling. They never focus on
anything positive, only babies dying, the hassle of pumping, and other
negatives. It sounds to me like the editors have "personal issues" in this
area. Why no stories on the deaths from artificial feeding? Or nothing from
mothers who actually enjoyed breastfeeding?
I've written to them on my own, as have others I know, and we got no
response. I'm told by an insider that unless they get a lot of letters --
like, say, 100 -- they will brush it aside.
Remember, Salon is not small potatoes -- it has massive influence, and
Mothers Who Think has become even more popular now that they've published a
best-selling book (an collection of its columns by the same name).
Although they *did* publish Katie Allison Granju's excellent Babywise piece
a while ago, they've also published these:
http://www.salonmagazine.com/mwt/feature/1999/05/21/nursing/index.html
http://www.salonmagazine.com/mwt/hot/1998/06/16hot.html
http://www.salonmagazine.com/sept97/mothers/creme970926.html
http://www.salonmagazine.com/sept97/mothers/milk970926.html
http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/1999/03/16feature.html
Send your letters directly to the Editor of Mothers Who Think, Camille Peri
[log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>, and copy [log in to unmask]
Heck, for that matter, you can copy anyone you deem appropriate.
http://www.salon1999.com/contact/staff/
And you have my permission to forward this anywhere you'd like. :-)
Janice Berry, mom of Zack (11/30/92) and Gina (9/4/96)
Westerville, OH
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:42:53 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: welcome note
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Hi there. The process to go to digests is to do a
Set Lactnet Digest
to [log in to unmask]
This is described in the welcome note. Printing the Welcome note off and
keeping it nearby for reference is one way to really begin to understand how
a listserv works, and we have tried to include the instructions for basics
in there.
Please let me know if you have further questions.
Kathleen
PS Further questions of this nature usually go to us as listsowners, at
[log in to unmask]
kathleen
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont
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LACTNET Archives http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/lactnet.html
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:43:36 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: bleaches and cleaning stuff
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querida and pat, to answer your question about husbands taking over to help
pregnant wives avoid exposure - yes! thirteen years ago this month, my doctor
told me to stop vacuuming the floors (i was hugely pregnant). and you know
what? he has never told me it was okay to resume, so i haven't.
carol brussel IBCLC
laura nevada lactation
in denver where the spousal unit does indeed clean the bathroom - twice a
week
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 12:59:14 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Jerry & Jacie Coryell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: re virus warning
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If anyone kept the recent virus warning, please send a copy to me. I can't
find it in my deleted files nor could I pull it up in the archives.
thanks in advance, Jacie in sunny Albuquerque, New Mexico
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 12:11:50 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Lora L. Horn" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: 2 year old with tooth decay
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Hi everyone,
I had a mother call me today whose two year old just had four teeth
pulled from dental caries. The dentist told her not to have him drink with
a straw because the suction would remove the clots...does anyone know if
this would relate to nursing also?
Lora Horn
Pasadena, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
To: Recipients of LACTNET digests <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Friday, May 21, 1999 10:19 AM
Subject: LACTNET Digest - 20 May 1999 to 21 May 1999 - Special issue
(#1999-258)
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 15:24:51 -0400
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From: "Lori Nakaguchi, RN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Raw goat's milk
I have a friend whose two year old has had feeding problems since birth.
They were involved in a lactation study, and she says that they found that
she was a "one-breast" nurser. Her son is 2 now, hasn't been breastfeeding
for some time (her job wasn't conducive to pumping), and has continued to
have microscopic blood in his stool. I asked her about milk proteins in
his diet (will search the archives to find the site with the milk-free diet
list). She said recently that a medical nutritionist suggested raw goats
milk, as the unpasteurized milk has important enzymes. It is very
expensive, and her husband is presently in another fellowship program so
money is tight. I think he has seen a gastroenterologist. I will check the
archives for any posts on goats milk also. Is raw goat's milk safe for
toddlers? Does anyone have suggestions for good resources for further
research? Thanks. (Please E-mail me privately as am no mail)
Lori N.
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 13:25:35 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jones Family <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: 14 month old nurses 16 times a day, mom pregnant--Need Help
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I received a call today from the office of a very breastfeeding
friendly obstetrician asking me to advise a mom regarding weaning her 14
month old. This toddler, according to the mother, is nursing almost
constantly day and night--approximately 8 times a day and 8 times during
the night. I have permission from the mother to share her story.
Both her 3 year old and her 5 year old nursed almost exclusively well
into the second year until she weaned them, at which time they began
eating other foods. Dad is "lactose intolerant" and can't drink milk.
The 14 month old has asthma and excema. He sits in a high chair at
family meals and is offered whatever the family is eating. He rarely
eats more than one or two bites of anything.
All three children sleep with their parents. Although both parents like
having the children in bed with them, mom is exhausted with the frequent
night-time nursing. Children all nap and same time in the afternoon and
mom naps with them. Mom is concerned about moving 14 month old out of
her bed as his asthma is worse at night.
Mom seems willing to follow my suggestion and her obstetrician is in
agreement. Mom's pediatrician is also breastfeeding friendly and is not
opposed to toddler nursing or nursing while pregnant. Mom has not
consulted with him since the 12 month check-up and prefers not to talk
with him or to have me call him at the present time.
My recommendations were as follows:
Eliminate cow's milk and all dairy product from both mom and baby's
diet, using alternative sources of calcium and protein. Check labels
for whey, etc. [Toddler does drink small amounts of milk (and I think
mom said juice) from a cup. His favorite drink is Diet Coke, but he has
this very infrequently.]
Offer more hypoallergenic foods to toddler, rice cakes, lamb, and
chicken for example. I recommended that she obtain a copy of Detecting
Your Hidden Allergies by William G. Crook, MD. Does anyone know if this
book is still in print? I suggested the library, LLL (Mom made
reference to having attended meetings), and Amazon.com as possible
sources. I also suggested mom ask her pediatrician for a referral to a
pediatric allergist. In addition, I gave her the name of a local RD,
CLE who is in private practice.
For mom's nutrition, I suggested Eat Well, Lose Weight While
Breastfeeding by Eileen Behan, RD. I told her that it wasn't so she
could lose weight, but to help her select nutrient rich foods to sustain
the nutritional needs of herself, her toddler, and her unborn baby.
Mom has internet access and is anxious to know if there are helpful web
sites. Are there better books than those I have suggested? What would
be the best foods to offer the toddler, to meet his nutritional needs,
be non-allergenic, and most likely to be accepted?
Please reply privately as well as to the list as I am still way behind
on reading posts. TIA.
Bonnie Jones, RN, ICCE, IBCLC from the sunny S.W. USA
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 13:31:47 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Jones Family <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Addendum to 14 month old nurses 16 times a day
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Forgot to mention that I suggested moving the 14 month old out of mom'
bed but not out of her room, possibly having him sleep with the 5 year
old.
--
Bonnie Jones, RN, ICCE, IBCLC
from the sunny S.W. USA
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:36:55 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Lisa Marasco IBCLC <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Where did it go?
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I've been searching for bfg clip art on the web, starting with leads from
the lactnet archives. The best source seems to be the url's below, but I'm
getting a "not found on this server" response. Has this site moved? Anyone
know where the art went?
http://www.clark.net/pub/activist/bf_clip_art
http://www.clark.net/pub/activist/bf_art/bf_art.html
http://www.clark.net/pub/activist/bf_art/bf_art2.html
http://www.clark.net/pub/activist/
TIA,
Lisa Marasco, BA, IBCLC
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:45:18 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Jane and Fred Squires <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Anna Swisher
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Anna: I've lost your email address. Would you please email me privately.
Thanks. Jane
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:56:24 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Cindy Curtis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Where did it go?
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Moved to www.promom.org
Cindy
Cindy Curtis,RN,IBCLC
mailto:[log in to unmask]
http://www.erols.com/cindyrn
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:15:01 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Jones Family <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Addendum #2 to 14 month old nurses 16 times a day
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Second suggestion re sleep: Hire someone to watch children a couple
hours in the morning so mom can nap.
Bonnie Jones
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 17:26:19 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Jane and Fred Squires <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Fw: FEDweek Newsletter, May 19 Issue
MIME-Version: 1.0
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My husband just emailed me this very exciting message. It looks like we are
starting to make a difference.
Jane Squires
-----Original Message-----
From: Squires, Fred CAPT <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Friday, May 21, 1999 9:28 AM
Subject: FW: FEDweek Newsletter, May 19 Issue
>Thought you'd be interested in this:
>
> Fred N. Squires
> Captain, U.S. Coast Guard
> Director of Command, Control,
> Communications, and Computers
> Room 6422C
> Phone 202 267 2860
> Fax: 202 267 4617
> e-mail: [log in to unmask]
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rochon, Shirley
>> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 1999 2:41 PM
>> To: lst-G-S
>> Subject: FEDweek Newsletter, May 19 Issue
>>
>>
>> FEDweek
>>
>> 7. OPM Promoting On-Site Breast Milk Programs
>> The Office of Personnel Management says that in keeping
>> with President Clinton's "family friendly" workplace
>> policies, federal agencies should set up programs that
>> allow mother's to produce breast milk while at work.
>> Here's what OPM says: "Not long ago breast-feeding was
>> considered a private affair, solely carried out in the
>> home. But today, many mothers are choosing to continue
>> breast-feeding after they return to work. In order for
>> mothers to keep producing ample supplies of milk, so
>> they can avoid using formula supplements, nursing mothers
>> need to pump their milk during the workday. Because of
>> the large numbers of mothers choosing to do this, many
>> corporations and federal agencies are beginning to offer
>> lactation programs to working mothers who return to the
>> job after being on leave for the birth of a child. It
>> doesn't require a lot of money to set up a nursing
>> mothers program. At a bare minimum, all that is required
>> is a room with an outlet, refrigerator and chair that
>> can be used as a pumping station."
>>
>>
>
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:44:03 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Tabitha Walrond case and breastfeeding advocate's hysteria
Mime-Version: 1.0
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May I respectfully suggest that people consider that the jury in the Tabitha
Walrond case had access to more information than has ever been made public,
and that we have to trust they made the right decision based on the facts.
It has been clearly stated in the media that this baby died from a
combination of factors: adrenal hypoplasia, insufficient breast milk intake
(due in part to his mother's breast reduction surgery), failure to feed him
anything else, and HIS MOTHER'S NEGLIGENCE in not taking him to an ER.
It is a fact that in the US we do expect parents to take reasonable measures
to care for their children, and this includes getting medical help when your
baby is starving to death. This child was 2 months old, not 2 days. This
case is not just about breastfeeding, and when people insist that this
mother should not have had to bear *any burden of responsibility* for
noticing that her baby was starving to death, it just makes them look foolish.
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 17:58:27 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: taking over chores for mom
Mime-Version: 1.0
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"Darnit Tom, you spoiled all the fun! I was hoping that nursing mothers
would
have to avoid all bleaches and never have to clean the bathroom or kitchen
again - can't wash the nappies either! I thought it would have been a good
'selling point' for breastfeeding.
tongue firmly in cheek
Querida:
does this mean that husb ands are offering to take over these chores
to
protect their bf wives from exposure? ;)
Patricia "
I did go to the gas station, get gasoline and fill the lawnmower for my wife
b/c I didn't want her exposed to hydrocarbon fumes while breastfeeding. I
figured it might make the milk taste bad.
I'm such a good husband aren't I?
BTW my wife wanted to mow the grass remember?
"Fussy fussy fussy Connor
Fussy baby all day long
Fussy when he isn't sleeping
Fussy when he's not latched on"
(try singing that to Beethoven's Ode to Joy)
-Rob
Rob Cordes, DO, FAAP, FACOP
Wilkes Barre PA
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 18:07:47 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Janice Berry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Tabitha Walrond case and breastfeeding advocate's hysteria
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Kathy Dettwyler wrote:
> May I respectfully suggest that people consider that the jury in the
Tabitha
> Walrond case had access to more information than has ever been made
public,
> and that we have to trust they made the right decision based on the facts.
>
> It has been clearly stated in the media that this baby died from a
> combination of factors: adrenal hypoplasia, insufficient breast milk
intake
> (due in part to his mother's breast reduction surgery), failure to feed
him
> anything else, and HIS MOTHER'S NEGLIGENCE in not taking him to an ER.
>
> It is a fact that in the US we do expect parents to take reasonable
measures
> to care for their children, and this includes getting medical help when
your
> baby is starving to death. This child was 2 months old, not 2 days. This
> case is not just about breastfeeding, and when people insist that this
> mother should not have had to bear *any burden of responsibility* for
> noticing that her baby was starving to death, it just makes them look
foolish.
Kathy, what hysteria are you referring to?
Janice Berry, mom of Zack (11/30/92) and Gina (9/4/96)
Westerville, OH
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 18:17:19 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: warning :potientailly hazardous to grandmoms
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Yesterday I saw a happy healthy breastfeding baby and mom.
Mom told me how grandmom is always on her about the baby's weight gain as
in: "your feeding that baby too much, you have to space her out, she's
getting too fat, you can't keep picking her up every time she cries or wants
to nurse, your going to spoil her...".
Even "the first time a boy friend breaks up with her she is going to eat a
whole container of Haagen Daz "(sp) and "The pediatrician is going to yell
at you"
Needless to say the pediatrician was quite complimentary and mom knew I
would be.
Since mom told me she was starting to feel guilty for holding and feeding
the baby so much we had a long talk which led to the work/writing of the
good Dr Kathy D.
I Emailed mom Kathy's web page but warned her ahead of time, "If grand mom
reads this she might have a heart attack or a stroke."
-Rob
Rob Cordes, DO, FAAP, FACOP
Wilkes Barre PA
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 17:24:53 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Laura Wright <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Fwd: Re: money
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Eschew Obfuscation!
"A newborn baby has only three demands. They are warmth in the arms of
its mother, food from her breasts, and security in the knowledge of her
presence. Breastfeeding satisfies all three." ~ Dr. Grantly Dick-Read
--WebTV-Mail-347291431-5957
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:27:27 -0500
Subject: Re: money
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Subject: Internet Access
=A0=20
For your information.
CNN reported that in the next two weeks, Congress is going to vote on
allowing telephone companies to charge for Internet access. That means,
every time we make a long distance e-mail we will receive a long
distance charge.=20
This will get costly.=A0 Please visit to the following website AND
complain.=20
Complain to your Congressman.=A0 Don't allow this to pass.
http://www.house.gov/writerep <http://www.house.gov/writerep> Pass this
on to your friends and family.=A0 It is urgent!=A0 All of us have an
interest in this one.
PLEASE FORWARD TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW.=A0
Lawrence F Moroni Sr
President *COM*BAT Computer Solutions
Email: mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>=20
(Voice)-847-970-9324 (Fax)-847-970-9319
--WebTV-Mail-347291431-5957--
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 17:28:34 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Laura Wright <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Fwd: Re: money
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Eschew Obfuscation!
"A newborn baby has only three demands. They are warmth in the arms of
its mother, food from her breasts, and security in the knowledge of her
presence. Breastfeeding satisfies all three." ~ Dr. Grantly Dick-Read
Eschew Obfuscation!
"A newborn baby has only three demands. They are warmth in the arms of
its mother, food from her breasts, and security in the knowledge of her
presence. Breastfeeding satisfies all three." ~ Dr. Grantly Dick-Read
--WebTV-Mail-580515868-4005
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:27:27 -0500
Subject: Re: money
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Subject: Internet Access
=A0=20
For your information.
CNN reported that in the next two weeks, Congress is going to vote on
allowing telephone companies to charge for Internet access. That means,
every time we make a long distance e-mail we will receive a long
distance charge.=20
This will get costly.=A0 Please visit to the following website AND
complain.=20
Complain to your Congressman.=A0 Don't allow this to pass.
http://www.house.gov/writerep <http://www.house.gov/writerep> Pass this
on to your friends and family.=A0 It is urgent!=A0 All of us have an
interest in this one.
PLEASE FORWARD TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW.=A0
Lawrence F Moroni Sr
President *COM*BAT Computer Solutions
Email: mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>=20
(Voice)-847-970-9324 (Fax)-847-970-9319
--WebTV-Mail-580515868-4005--
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 17:35:22 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Laura Wright <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Fwd: Re: money
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Eschew Obfuscation!
"A newborn baby has only three demands. They are warmth in the arms of
its mother, food from her breasts, and security in the knowledge of her
presence. Breastfeeding satisfies all three." ~ Dr. Grantly Dick-Read
Eschew Obfuscation!
"A newborn baby has only three demands. They are warmth in the arms of
its mother, food from her breasts, and security in the knowledge of her
presence. Breastfeeding satisfies all three." ~ Dr. Grantly Dick-Read
--WebTV-Mail-247376946-5971
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:27:27 -0500
Subject: Re: money
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Subject: Internet Access
=A0=20
For your information.
CNN reported that in the next two weeks, Congress is going to vote on
allowing telephone companies to charge for Internet access. That means,
every time we make a long distance e-mail we will receive a long
distance charge.=20
This will get costly.=A0 Please visit to the following website AND
complain.=20
Complain to your Congressman.=A0 Don't allow this to pass.
http://www.house.gov/writerep <http://www.house.gov/writerep> Pass this
on to your friends and family.=A0 It is urgent!=A0 All of us have an
interest in this one.
PLEASE FORWARD TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW.=A0
Lawrence F Moroni Sr
President *COM*BAT Computer Solutions
Email: mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>=20
(Voice)-847-970-9324 (Fax)-847-970-9319
--WebTV-Mail-247376946-5971--
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 18:42:37 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Linda J. Smith" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Chicago Hope and formula cans
Comments: To: Barb <[log in to unmask]>
Comments: cc: LACTNET <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I saw the formula cans on the Chicago Hope finale too.
Accidental? HA! No way! NOTHING that happens or is shown on a major TV
show is accidental, especially not on the season finale. The manufacturer
paid BIG bucks for the "product exposure."
Ever notice the many product ads in movies? That's not accidental either,
and companies compete aggressively for the right to be thus "exposed" to
public view. Next time you watch a movie, look for car logos, beer brands,
electronic equipment brand names, etc. Once you are aware of this strategy,
the ads will become more obvious.
Linda J. Smith, BSE, FACCE, IBCLC
Bright Future Lactation Resource Centre
Dayton, OH USA
http://www.bflrc.com
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 18:50:28 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: glenn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Baby Story (#1999-258)
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Hi all.
I saw a wonderful episode of "The Baby Story" last fall with an
adoptive family. The birth mom had a CNM assisted birthing center
birth, underwater. The adoptive mom & dad and the older sister (who
had also been adopted) were all present. The adoptive mom immediately
put the baby to breast using an SNS, and there was a fairly lengthy
(for a 1/2 hour show) explanation of the SNS by the mom.
Of course, this was the ONLY episode I have seen where the line,
"Well, she's two centimeters now, let's give her an epidural," was NOT
heard.
Teresa G. in NC
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 23:54:10 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Tabitha Walrond case
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Kathy,
>May I respectfully suggest that people consider that the jury in the Tabitha
>Walrond case had access to more information than has ever been made public,
>and that we have to trust they made the right decision based on the facts.
My sister is a lawyer and she made exactly the same comment. We cannot
assume the dury were ill-informed and prejudiced. Women do sometimes do
awful things to their babies, sadly. A few weeks ago, for instance, I
watched a documentary on the BBC about Munchausen's Syndrome by Proxy,
whereby mothers deliberately harm their babies. I wondered about that in
this case, although it was not mentioned.
I was shocked, however, to discover that the daily home visits by a
midwife, for the first 10 days of life, that we take for granted in
Britain, is not universal. I didn't notice my 5 day old baby had severe
jaundice (orange skin, yellow eyes and brick red stools) and was in
total denial right up until we arrived at Special Care, on the midwives
orders. I pale to think would might have happened if I hadn't had that
service. However, as someone said to me on another list, there is a
*big* difference between 5 days PP and 8 *weeks*.
I think the midwife visits are very valuable in preventing such
tragedies - it helps mothers and babies, and maybe could have prevented
a tragedy like this from occuring. After the first 10 days, here in
Britain we are then passed on to a health visitor, who visits regularly
(according to need) for the first few years of a baby's life). I know I
run the HVs down sometimes, but the system is basically a good one,
IMHO. I am hoping that maybe some good will come out of this, in that
services for new mothers may be improved. Personally, I think it is a
red herring to say this is about breastfeeding - when I was working as a
nurse, I saw a formula fed baby almost starved to death by his parents.
The problem is the parenting, not the feeding method, IME.
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 20:17:10 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Rebecca DeYoung Daniels, MBA, RD" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Connor & Beethoven
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Rob,
The problem with Connor is that he probably prefers Mozart to
Beethoven...and he'not really fussy, just "vocal" or
"high-need"...trying to convince *myself* of that one today...
Rebecca in KS, USA
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 01:18:48 +0000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Victoria Fisher <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: udder cream?
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Fellow Lactnuts,
I have a question posed by a friend. I have shared my "thoughts" on
this with her already but it's one of those documentation issues. Anyone
have any informtion on Udder Cream? Its ingredients or reccomended
usages?
Here's the question:
An LC has been challenged by a doctor about her info about nipple cream
and says it is perfectly alright ot use Udder Cream
on a mothers nipples and unless she is able to show documentation
against his stand he will not accept her info on Lansinoh.She
has discussed rationally with him all the info she has but has none on
Udder Cream .Does any one know anything about Udder
Cream and why it should not be used on nursing mothers? Could not find
any info on it in Tom Hales book.I did discuss with her
the possibility of asking him ot show his documentation to her so she
can learn what he" knows".Because this is the Air Force
feels she has ot be very careful how she words and gives info, Any help
here would be appreciated .
Thanks all!
Victoria Fisher
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 18:47:30 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Mary Conner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: botulism
Comments: To: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
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On Thu, 20 May 1999, Patrica Young wrote:
> The case I heard about was from Children's Hospital in Philadelphia. The
> connection is two-fold. Construction going on in the area and baby is in a
> transition stage, just starting solids or ABM. The spores apparently float
> in the air. I'm not sure what could be done about it. Any baby is exposed
> by using honey, but I think most know that. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
Is there any indication of how long it takes for the risk to diminish
after construction is finished? I've got a 3 month old baby and a
house being built just over the fence. They finished the excavation/
foundation work about a month ago.
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 21:08:13 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Lucretia McGee Bush <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: udder cream?
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I happen to have a jar of the "Udderly Smooth" brand udder cream, which is
readily available around here. It clearly states on the label to wash off,
with soap and water, before milking to avoid contamination of the milk. The
label also says to not use near the eyes, and to keep out of the reach of
children. The cream is strongly fragranced, the listed ingredients are
allantoin, dimethicone, lanolin and propylene glycol in an emollient base.
I just rubbed a tiny bit onto my hand and touched my tongue to it, YUCK,
very bitter/soapy taste. None of this makes it on my recommended list for
breastfeeding nipples.
FYI, the web site is www.uddercream.com.
Lu Bush, BSN, RNC,IBCLC
Austin, Texas
-----Original Message-----
>I have a question posed by a friend. I have shared my "thoughts" on
>this with her already but it's one of those documentation issues. Anyone
>have any informtion on Udder Cream? Its ingredients or reccomended
>usages?
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 22:38:37 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: iron absorption mixing human milk and formula
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I believe than any formula decreases the bioavailability of iron from
breastmilk. In fact I think that any food changes it. That is why anemia in
breastfed infants is a controversial topic. It is very rare in exclusively
breastfed infants- of which there are relatively few in the U.S. with formula
supplementation and early intro of solids(<6mo). Therefore I would argue that
when a baby is supplemented it should be with iron fortified formula.
On the other hand there is a theory that excess iron can bind to tranferrin
and changing its anti-infective properties.
Mary Murphy MD
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 22:40:46 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Raw goat's milk
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I would discourage raw goats milk for two major points. One is from an
infectious
standpoint. A wide variety of diseases have been transmitted via
unpasturized animal milks. And the last thing this child needs is something
like camphylobacter or brucelosis. The other is goats milk is deficient in
folate, and megaloblastic anemia related to goats milk consumption use to be
a popular stump the medical student/resident type of case presentation. Some
commercial brands are folate fortified.
Mary Murphy MD
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Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 21:57:02 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Deanne Francis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Bag Balm and 'Udder' Veterinary creams
Hi, all,
A look at the label should convince most anyone that Bag Balm (Udder Cream)
is for VETERINARY, not human use. None of the allergens or pollutants have
been removed, and a call to a qualified dermatologist should solve the
problem about whether or not it should be used on human nipples.
Having used this stuff on cows udders while we were running a cow/calf
operation, I can tell you that many calves won't nurse unless it is cleaned
off completely. Actually, if we ever decide to raise any more cattle, I am
going to try Lansinoh on the cows.
Deanne, BSN, IBCLC,LCCE
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