I fully appreciate the spirit in which the original comment about op.111 was made and I do not mean to denigrate it by my response. The seeds of any evolved creature may be found in earlier species. This does not mean however that the early "ancestors" had any inkling of what they would eventually become or even any intention of "becoming" anything. Their adaptations were simply their own creative responses to the environment in which they found themselves. Thus, when we hear "jazz" in Beethoven or other classical era composers it is either coincidence or (significantly) something that the African Americans who originated jazz may have picked up from their own hearing of European music and incorporated as part of the stew that became jazz. Frankly, rather than particular motives or melodies, I would think that citing the improvisation practiced by Mozart and others would be more apt as a description of Europeans practicing a primitive version of jazz music. Jazz music is quintessentially American. (Or at least it used to be. One of the exciting trends in jazz is how it is now being influenced by strains from around the world and has the potential to "reinvent" itself once again.) In its own way it is definitely an art form deserving of study and attention comparable to that afforded by those of us on this list to European classical music. Alas, another time; another place. BTW, if anyone knows of any good jazz lists please contact me privately. I subscribed to one for a while but the nonmusical content overwhelmed the musical to an annoying degree. Ed