Your method certainly sounds like it worked well. I don't know where in Ontario you are, but unless you are near Lake Erie your winters are probably colder than our own, in Albany, NY. In 1997 I did much the same as you, and my method was patterned after the method Kurt Webster uses in central Vermont. His methods were described in a four-part article in ABJ during 1997. I will outline the differences in our methods for those who want to try either, or make further modifications. Like you, I divide a Lang. 10 frame hive in two by using a inside divider. The bottom is a solid piece of wood, with no entrances. Entrances are auger holes just below the hand hold on the short side, with each facing a different direction. I also use five frames in each nuc. Over the top of all 10 frames is a piece of burlap (untreated). This molds to the tops of the frames so bees can't go back and forth, and one side can easily be lifted for inspection, etc. without disturbing the other nuc. I started my nucs in mid-August, with purchased northern queens that had not been caged (as in bred earlier, but held for shipment in cages instead of nucs). Three frames of brood and attendant bees and two frames of sealed honey and pollen. At this time of year, the bees which will collect a crop and stores for the winter are all ready flying, so removal of the brood is no problem. By mid-October all nucs were plugged out with stores. Then I put each "hive" (2 nucs) on top of a regular hive, removing the inner cover and outer cover from the regular hive. I used 3/4" fiberboard for the bottoms of the nucs, so that becomes the tops of the regular hives. Undoubtedly, some heat from the regular hive goes through the fiberboard to the nucs. (Each regular hive has a top auger hole for ventilation.) This past Saturday I looked at the nucs (10 in all) and all have a good cluster and lot's of sealed honey. Webster said that in his climate (at least two solid weeks of -20F) the nucs only need five plugged frames to get through the winter. We aren't quite as cold as he is, and this winter was quite warm, but the five frames were clearly sufficient. My guess is that because the frames get plugged early, the bees go into the winter with a very small cluster. The queens are carnolian, so the nucs should explode come April and I will let each grow into a 10 frame hive that will hopefully produce a surplus. I hadn't thought of splitting them again, and don't think I'll try that this year but maybe in another year. -----Original Message----- From: David Eyre <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> Date: Thursday, February 26, 1998 3:54 PM Subject: 5 Frame Nucs. We have, for many years made up nucs to winter over till the next year, and every year had losses from 40-60% for various reasons. This year I have tried a new idea of mine and up to now ( touch wood etc.) have a 100% pass rate. In previous years we tried single box hives (ie. 10 frames), we've tried them in packs, and mounted on top full hives and still lose a number of them. Our latest idea entails some box modification but nothing beyond the average woodworker. Here's what we did. Take a regular Lang box and rout a slot with a 1/4 bit, vertically and centred, inside the box's short side and the opposite end. This takes a piece of 1/4 ply which should slide down and be flush with both top and bottom of the box, in effect making a double compartment. Now fashion a folding inner cover. Ours are hinged in the middle, which allows one side to be manipulated without disturbing the other. Normal vent and feed holes should be supplied, and for winter, top entrances are a must. The floor needs little alteration, just a piece front to back to coincide with the centre plywood. You can't allow contact between one side to the other. One final point, arrange the hive entrances at the front of the long sides. Do not under any circumstances have both entrances on the front short sides!! These alterations now will provide two compartments of 5 frames each. As a trial we made up 5 units, giving us 10 nucs, didn't want to risk too much at one go!! We used surplus Queens left over and made up 5 frame nucs and installed them, very late in the season. Once they were well established we had to empty our baby nucs for winter storage, so shook approx 24 baby nucs in front and allowed them to find a home. Here's the change. We know with our Northern climate that 5 frames wouldn't be enough stores, we also know that bees eat their way upwards. So, we added another box on top, prepared the same way with a slide in separator, full of 5 frames of honey taken from full honey supers. So in effect, we have two 10 frame hives in each wrap, 5 frames on top of 5 frames. Today is fairly warm, still below freezing, no wind and full sun. The bees are all at the entrances peeking out, so I took a gamble and had a peek under the covers. Sealed stores, and lots of bees. As I said earlier 100% pass rate, every one looking good. Soon I should add some feed, come the spring we will split again, add a Queen cell and make 10-5 frame nucs. If anyone would care to comment, or if I am not concise enough then I would appreciate discussion. ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks e-mail <[log in to unmask]> ********************************************