Hello Lactnetters, We've come up with an interesting problem here in Israel. We've found in many grand multiparas that the nipples have become so drawn out and flexible that babies have trouble grasping the areola and drawing out milk. Have any of you encountered this in your work, what do you do to remedy the situation, and is there any research on the subject? I'm no-mail so please write back to me as well as to the list. I recently got a copy of Karen Pryor's Nursing Your baby. She writes as I said, that engorgement does not have to happen at the onset of bf and is generally the result of strict hospital regimens and the seperation of mother and baby. I remember Judy asked about this about 6 weeks ago. Judy, I really suggest getting a copy of Karen Pryor's book. She is amazingly perceptive, and though the book is over 20 years old it is amazing and a real joy to read. Nofia