[log in to unmask] +++ Hi Allen, Kelley, Fran and all Sorry that I have been 'unplugged' for a few days but I am glad to see the interest and good references already provided to this thread. Being no expert in this I have little of significance to add. However I will mention a few things: Allen - I have worked with two folks with MS. Both claimed they got improvement albeit lasting for only a few days which is in keeping with my layman's view of the mechanism. Both have now discontinued one because he qualified for using the new experimental drug which luckily was paid for by his health insurance. The other gets stings only sporadically, I think because he does not like the initial pain and will not try an ice cube on the area that seems to reduce that initial and worst pain. The ice cube is applied for a few minutes before the bee sting is applied. Kelley It would take so many pages to try to explain all I've met up in this. However if you can do a net search you should find hundreds and hundreds of references. However I will gladly respond to any of your or anybody else's questions. Fran I know nothing about ALS or L.G. disease. However from what you say it being degeneration of muscles, then stings at the acupuncture points involved might help I think. An acupuncturist can locate these points for you. Ours even marked the patient with 'indelible' ink to help me find the spots. I did learn the ones I needed but it is a continuing process with theories of application of stings varying between repetitive and progressive approaches. As I see it Bee Venom Therapy encompasses both the injection of prepared standard doses of the venom (or an extract) as well as directly stinging with live bees which locally is being called Apitherapy. Yes there is a local Toronto, Ontario chapter (or associate) of the American Apitherapy Society. The prepared and injected venom has the advantage of being of standard strength and treatment is generally 'systemic' (whole body) in nature whereas the stings are for localized treatment with only a small whole body effect. I have found that the bees differ quite a lot in amount or strength of venom so treatments have this variable as well. The Dr. I mentioned had training in Chinese as well as western medicine and used both. Which makes me wonder if any of our Chinese friends have any experience in BVT or Apitherapy. I am sure they are quite familiar with acupuncture. I hope they will add what they know. Perhaps Pure Jane has some knowledge or can ask around there. All for now ........... george