>If you put cleats at the top of the boxes, doesn't that interfere with the >outer (telescoping) >cover? > >Gerry Visel Yes, if of the usual factory design. The telescoping cover could be made longer, but the majority of cleated boxes I've seen have been those of commercial beekeepers or others using the migratory-type cover. This is a flat cover, which is cleated on the ends to prevent warping. (An inner-cover is not normally used with this lid). There are folks around NY and Pa I know of who have only ever used these lids for ages. I've got some of both, but use an inner cover under the flat ones too, in winter. If you're going to spend the time to make fancy telescoping covers, it would be nice to make them deeper than the US manufacturers dictate, and follow the British design (deep outer cover, often with vents). This shrouds the hive more, during nasty weather. For my cheapo outer covers I just nail up frames made of (5/8" x 2") furring strips and nail rectangles of plywood onto these. A layer of roofing paper stapled on, a coat of paint and that's about it. They are nice and light. Speaking of hand-holds and cleats, one of the obvious advantages to the British (Modified) National hive is the plinths that are integral to the hive body design. They give about as solid a grip as you could ever ask for. In many instances this is probably worth having the long lugs on the frames. Honey sure is heavy!