> With due respect to the rights of plastic foundation I make the > following observation. Lasts year I used a combination of prodoucts > for evaluation and thus had not hives that were 100 one product. I > used (a) a all wax foundation with support wire, (b) plastic > foundation with a coating of bees wax. and (c)some comlete frames > and foundation of plastsic coated with beewax. > > Last year both (a) and (b) were well accepted and both brood and > 6-5.8 inch frames came through the winter well. product(c) was not > well accepted and it appears that they bees simply moved most sof > the wax elsewhere and made little or no drawn cells. <etc.> While I had hoped that this might tell us something about specific products on the market it seems it discusses products identified only generally by type -- did not appear to work well work in a specific situation. That is unfortunate inasmuch as the specific products are not named, and we might tend to draw conclusions based on a small sample of products in each category. They appear not to be the well known, nationally advertised products I have used over the years -- and which I will name. We read that some unmentioned brand of wax foundation of unknown cell size seemed to be well accepted, some plastic sheets of unstated manufacture (there are at least several on the market) were somewhat accepted and seemed to have problems when later examined, and some plastic frames with foundation built-in that are possibly -- in some way -- associated with New Zealand were not accepted at all -- each under circumstances that are not clear. I want to state specifically that I have used numerous (most North American) brands of wax foundation -- including some with considerable paraffin, I suspect. They all worked , but some brands, on some occasions were brittle and fell apart-- or they were poorly made and warped. In my experience, wax foundation -- of any brand -- has often been rejected by my bees due to poor position or bad timing, and has become useless before the bees got to it again another year. (I have only used the wax foundation that purported to have worker size cells and and although I have noticed that they vary somewhat in cells per inch, I have never been observant enough to decide if the bees care). As far as plastic goes, I have used Permadent ( and another brand, the name of which I forget) as well as the Pierco frames with foundation built in. In my opinion -- in commercial service --the bees draw a larger proportion of useful straight combs on any of them with less wastage than on any wax I have used, and I have had literally tons of wax foundation pass through my hands over the years. If the plastic is not drawn out the first year, it can be re-inserted until it is used. It will not be damaged by being handled and trucked repeatedly until it is lucky enough to find a hive that is ready to work on it. Wax is usually pretty useless if not drawn the first year, as it will not stand trucking and rough handling, or storage under some conditions. It cannot be handled in cold weather. As far as cross comb is concerned, We really don't find plastic any worse than natural wax. FWIW, we added 1,000 supers of new Permadent this year and love it. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:[log in to unmask] & [log in to unmask] Honey. Bees, & Art <http://www.internode.net/~allend/>