Roy jumped into this list with a hot topic. For the record, Jim Bach is the Washington Apicultural Inspector who has been investigating "poor" queens. A few weeks ago in Spokane, he gave a list of 16 characteristics that he has observed more and more frequently in queens. I have to agree with him, and actually added a few comments of my own - the main one is a tendency for the bees to ball the queen at the drop of a hat for no apparent reason. Just open the hive, give them a bit of smoke - the bees roll off the frames, into the box, over the bottom, up the sides, and out. The queen runs like an antelope, jumps into the box, and the bees jump on her and kill her on the spot. THIS IS NOT MANAGEMENT OR HANDLING ERROR, we have worked bees for 20+ years and have only seen this in the last three. Almost seems like the better the day and the gentler we try to be, the more likely it is to happen. Anyway, Jim and I have had some long talks about this. I estimate that 35-50% of the colonies we have observed replace the original queen just as the nectar flow really gets going. It is pointless to blame specific queen breeders. Like Jim, I see no pattern as to who, where, or when in terms of colonies that demonstrate poor clustering and loyalty to the queen. One can get good queens, but the proportion of queen's that are ill-suited to Montana climatic conditions seems to be going up. Jim thinks it has to do with pheromone production - and some clues suggest this is at least part of the issue. I also suspect that mites may alter queen behavior. Whatever the cause, we seldom see colonies boiling over with bees at the end of the summer in Montana. Clustering in cool weather is poor. Some recent data suggests thermal regulation may also be affected. Jim says colonies demonstrating his 16 traits "roar" as if queenless and that the difference can be measured with a simple decibel meter. I have a call in to Jim. He is not currently on the NET, but maybe I can get him to post his observations and test results. Thanks Jerry Bromenshenk [log in to unmask]