Becky, I suppose this could be interpreted several ways, but what I would probably do for this mom is encourage use of the SNS, fenugreek and/or metacloprimide (not one who is willing to give up easily), and at least see if this isn't a case of milk coming "in" late. There are some of us out here who's milk doesn't really come in well for much longer than the usual time (I had one client who called me at 6:00 am to announce that her milk had finally come in at 2:37 am -- day 12!!) If there are averages, there are always those of us on the far side of the bell curve (I'm one of them -- so was my mother -- my father made some rude comments about cows "freshening" whatever that meant). So, I would keep on keeping on, until it is really evident that nothing exciting is going to happen, and then write it up as a case study and turn it into the JHL! (Right, Kathy A?) Jan B.