In a message dated 95-07-12 00:05:46 EDT, [log in to unmask] (Mike High) wrote: >Are you sure you're not expecting too much from a queen? Absolutely not! The queen is everything. After the spring and early summer, where we are raising queens and making increase, my main purpose throughout the rest of the season is to cull the junk. Breeding is the single most important item in any livestock production, and bees are no exception. This thread could be highly informative, if *politeness* doesn't get in the way. Just the facts, ma'am..... It would be easy to raise production queens, and sell them cheap. I could raise them by the thousands. But I have never gotten into commercial queen rearing, because I know how much it takes to make a quality queen, and I only have about enough time and energy to make my own. There are a number of southern queen breeders that do raise production (rather than quality) queens, and they often overbook, so then they scramble to find other suppliers. You may not be aware how much some of these production guys trade around, and I won't do business with someone who trades around. Who knows what you get! In the south, in my book Reggie Wilbanks stands out. Weaver is also top notch. A young New York breeder, Bob Brachmann, I think is up and coming. I haven't used his queens personally, but I have worked with him and seen his stock (very nice!) and his systems of selection and quality control, and I think he's going to go places. There are other small breeders which do not advertise, but have all the sales they can handle through word of mouth, because they produce a high quality product. I have used a lot of Homer Park queens, which used to be so different (the queens lay all the time!), that they required different management, but I loved them. As long as you took into account their characteristics, you could do wonderful things with them. Lately, with Homer not so involved, I think they are not such a standout, though still a good queen. Some principles: 1. El cheapos are strictly production queens. It takes too much input to make a quality queen to sell her cheap. You'd be bankrupt if you tried. ie. Miserly beekeepers cannot get good queens. 2. There are also high priced queens which are not quality, but make their sales based on hype. Caveat emptor. 3. Get three or four good reliable sources, then rotate, so you don't wind up with all one stock. (You don't want inbred supercedures, do you?) That also gives you some comparisons and a learning experience. 4. If you have enough hives so that you can do some selection, and more than one location, you'd gain by trying a little queen rearing yourself. You want at least one isolated spot without other bees around, so that you can mostly control drone populations. (These spots are easier to find than they used to be.) Use your best stock to raise mamas and the also-rans to raise papas. [log in to unmask] Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 *Beekeeping is a higher state of consciousness. -So are fresh figs.*